S3E16 - Outlier's Edge: Restart Dead Projects, Win Big

I was interviewed on the Outlier's Edge Podcast. This is the audio for that release.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey there, Outliers. Niyama Shang here, and thank you so much for letting us be a part of your journey. I really do mean that. Thank you. Like there's you could have been spending your time doing anything right now, and you're choosing it to be here with us. Uh, and with that, here, we're gonna make sure that we have a conversation that honestly like uplifts challenges and gives you new perspectives by focusing on two incredible outliers who are trailblazing in their own right. Why don't you get a chance to get to know these outliers here? I'd like to start off with you, Steve. Uh, would you mind introducing yourself and letting us know more about the game you're currently playing?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, my name is Steve Cothrin. Um, and the game I'm playing right now is uh is a solemn round of uh uh life again. Um, I do have a podcast that I host, and it's uh been on the back burner just a little bit, but we're kicking it back off again. So um ironically enough, the name of the podcast is Points of Failure. So uh current point of failure is uh putting it off for a little while, a little longer than I needed to. Took a bit of a mental health break in 2023, and uh it lasted longer than I intended. So I am trying to get right back into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Well, I'm glad that you're here today, Steve. Um, we'll we'll play along with that here. I actually really like the idea of points of failure, so we'll see where we play with it in today's conversation. Sophie, let's get a chance to get to know you. Do you mind letting us know more about you and the game that you're currently playing?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

All right, hello everyone. My name is Sophie, and I am an e-commerce virtual assistant, which I enjoy very much. That's a part of my life I enjoy a lot. Um, apart from that, I am currently playing a game podcasting where in my podcast we talk about the day-to-day life of a young adult, the lessons most importantly, that we learn as young adults and how we can move on from them. So we just come dissect these issues that young adults go through, and we see how we can move on from those issues. We see how we can learn from them and don't repeat mistakes that we have made.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Well, I'm all in on uh on learning from learning from things. We have uh learning from mistakes or not not repeating them. We have multiple points of failure in this place. I think we're gonna have a a really good conversation, you know. Uh let's let's start off here. Uh Steve, you brought up like your podcast, and like they like right now you'd stopped in 2023. So what you may not know is that oh, I should go look at this here. But uh the time of this recording, it is mid-March of 2025. Um, and literally a year ago, we're coming on like basically the one-year anniversary of me picking back up this podcast. Um, I've been podcasting on and off since 2014. So about like it was 10 years at the time, you know. Um, and I was definitely off at that time. Uh, and you know, since then we have released probably I I think we're like at 150 episodes in the last year. Um, and you know, been feeling good about that. I feel a little bit off. I feel like it's probably more like 200. So the the the what's coming to me is um enjoy your break. Uh, when you do come back, come back strong. Um and let's I'll actually like to take up that this component of that element of making a switch and thinking it was going to be for like a short time or like a temporary thing. Uh, and then like what happens when it just like continues on. So see, let me let's let's start off with you here. Um you can use the podcast and maybe maybe bring something else here, but I'm thinking about any outliers that's like out there that's like there you know what you know what's hitting me? The the the the space about this? What's hitting me is like the part where I'm like, well, I used to be really great. I used to have this thing, and then I took a break for something and now I don't. So how do I like how do I feel? How do I still identify? Do I still can I still hold on to that greatness? I don't know if that's you, but like that's the angle that like hit me with it here. Curious what comes up for y'all.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, uh, I would agree with that because you know, when I when I kicked it off, I initially had a plan of getting us getting you know a backlog of episodes so that I could have a uh a uh consistency, you know, that cadence of release. And I I recorded my first episode and I just got so excited I just had to edit it and get it released and put it out there. And then I found myself, oh man, now I gotta get another episode in. And so it there was somewhat of a cadence. Um, if you can have an inconsistent cadence, uh, you know, it was a couple weeks and then it was a month, and then it was, you know, month and a half, and then a few weeks. But, you know, I I was I'm very fortunate to be surrounded by a lot of people here in in this area that are entrepreneurs, um, business owners and executives, and and just spread out kind of across the country as well. And uh so it just really took off. Um, I had I didn't ever like break, you know, a thousand downloads a month, but I had several listeners across the the world. I'd had no idea that I had listeners in like Germany and and uh Singapore and South America, South Africa, upwards, Finland. They're everywhere. And so I always used to look at that and see my new country that popped in and my new set of listeners. And I thought, oh man, I'm doing really great. And everybody was patting me on the back and how great it was going, how much they loved it. And then 2023 came along, and it was a series of failures, uh, one after the other for me in 2023. It was a pretty hard year, and it took a toll on me emotionally and mentally. And so um I recorded uh two episodes, I think, in 2023, uh, and or one episode in 23. And I did go ahead and record two others last year in 24, but I have not edited and released them yet. Um, and I need to get them done. I just, you know, that it took a toll on me. And like you said, I did hit that that moment where it was like, man, I felt like I was so doing really well, I was doing so great, and then it was all just gone, and now I'm kind of like, am I a fraud if I come back, if I throw this back out there and go, oh hey, here I am still. And so it's it's been a bit of a challenge to to step back into it. Um, I think the motivation has been, or the lack of motivation rather, has been uh a bit of um an emotional blockage, I think. Just you know, breaking past that that feeling of hey, I'm the host to points of failure and I'm a big failure.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Steve, I I I I have some things on that, like I feel you so hard, and I'm so grateful, Steve. Like, like I'm grateful that you're being real about this, you know, because like like I like I know myself, there's a few things that are running through my mind. I told you this story, but I have multiple other things that come to my mind. I can also imagine outliers out there like hearing this as well, and and and like we get it, we're we're there. I'm gonna want to expand on this in in a bit. If you're cool, I like to play with it a little bit. Uh, I'm really curious what what what Sophie's here and what like what's coming to you uh as as we start the conversation here.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Well, I could relate so much to what Steve said, especially when you're trying to come back, it's so hard. You'll be like, am I sure I want people to hear me again? Am I sure I'm ready to go back there and be like, oh hey everybody, I'm the host of but I feel that particular um point is where you have to get past, like that point is where you have to cross. If you can cross that path, I feel like once you record that episode, that particular episode that you're scared to record, it takes a little bit of um weight off your chest. Like you're like, okay, I think I can do this. I think I think I can do the problem where we get stuck is trying to get back to what we used to do, like sound like we used to sound, or like feel the vibe, like we used to feel the vibe, but if you're not feeling that same vibe you still feel, maybe it's time to feel another vibe. I don't feel we cannot always be like the previous versions of ourselves. Okay, you were this particular version when you were recording your podcast last year, and you want to sound exactly like that again this year. It might it might not be like that, but the whole the whole point is just moving past that point, that point of you not being able to record and put yourself out there again. I I think that's the problem. So I don't know, I don't even know what I can do to get past that stage. That's where I am right now. If we can get past that stage, I think that that's like a little bit of um block chip of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I love it. I'm over here smiling. Y'all can't hear my smile through the through the through the um audio, but it's it's definitely here. Before I say anything else, Steve, what's what's playing out for you as as as we're going in? Uh and right now I'm like, Steve, Sophie, but like we'll just I think we're just gonna have a conversation, a real conversation, because like this is this to me is where the real rubber meets the road, right? Especially for us as outliers, when we're used to like flying high, when like people were used to getting the accolades, when we did the thing, you know, and we kind of want to go back and we're like, should we? Is this is it here? Is it is this real? Like, I know it. I know it. And if you're if y'all are down, I've I haven't had a conversation like this uh on this podcast, and I would love to to bring it in. Are y'all good for this? Just like stay and play with this for a while. Absolutely.

unknown 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Anything, anything popping off for you, Steve, uh, based on anything now?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, you know, listening uh Sophie's uh describing, you know, that that getting past the the current stage and and just how to how to step over that. I think that's I can resonate, you know. I really, I really feel that as well because it's every time I go home from work and I sit down, then I think, okay, you know, I've got I got these things I need to do. I'm gonna hit the gym, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna do that thing, and I really need to spend some time getting these episodes edited. I've got three episodes and they're good episodes. I mean, you know, there's I've got a movie director that I interviewed, I've got, you know, the uh co-founder of Jackson Hewitt Tax Company, John Hewitt, he reached out to me. And so he re- I mean, I'm just like, man, I gotta get this stuff done, you know. And so, but every time I sit down to do it, it's I feel like there's this blockage, there's this thing that just doesn't have that fire that I used to have, you know, that this is some some weird, like a like a big just boo monster just standing behind me and just holding me back with you know chains around me, just like you're not gonna do that again. You think you are, but you're not. And it's that that failure that's almost I'm sort of anthropomorphizing the the failure, but it that's that's what it feels like. It feels like it's an actual thing standing behind me, just holding me back. And I, you know, just breaking past that is the is the thing. And I think it's a big part of why I was excited whenever you reached out to me and to be on this show, because I felt like, hey, this this could be that that springboard, this could be that you know, launch pad for getting getting everything, getting that creative juice flowing again.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, I I'm really honored to hear you say that there, Steve. Allies, I'm gonna call call this in here, which is like I had no clue that about where Steve was. I had no clue where Sophie was. I just sent an invitation because I'm like, I want to do this, you know, I want to try, I want to figure this thing out, you know? Um, and I guess the reason I want to put that into this conversation here is like there may be something that you're thinking about doing allies that you're asking yourself, is it a good idea? Who's gonna benefit from it? So on and so forth. And I'm gonna invite you to just like use this as a real-time check to be like, what if it didn't have to be, what if someone got something that you weren't expecting to get from it? Right? Like, I like both of you had that said in some ways that you're like, I said yes to this invitation because it was to get me back into the game of podcasts and at least see, like maybe this would do something, you know? And I like I promise you, that was not the intent that I had when I when I sent this, but I'm really, really grateful for it. It happens on this podcast. People come in, they're like, I yeah, I've been wanting to pick back up that podcast, you know. Um, so one, the two of you are in really good company. Um, and two, uh outliers like like I I'm hearing this and just thinking to myself, wow, what would have happened if a year ago I said to myself, I'm literally looking up um looking up the episodes. It's been 250 episodes that we got out. So we like uh in the last year, like we've been really getting them out there. But the one before that, it came out the last one came out like March 4th of 2024. And before then, we were at April 14th of 2023. So almost a whole year with like nothing in between, you know? Um, and I remember asking myself, like, can I do this? Like, like actually, there was probably two things. And something with you were saying, I can't remember which one of these brought it in, but it's like for me, it was the amount of work. It's like I love having a conversation. That part's good, you know. But then afterwards, it's the editing, it's the promoting, it's the everything else that comes with it, like um, with it. And uh, I had to really take some time. I had some long conversations with my wife before I came into it. Cause I was like, you know, uh, I I create a lot of clients through my podcast. Um, it's something I've really enjoyed. I'm like, come on my podcast and then like you can come in, I'll I'll bring you into my world. And I love it because I got to show up with value right away. I told my wife, I was like, this is gonna take a lot, you know. Like, like there's there's some other ways to do this that doesn't require so much work afterwards. Um, and at the same time, uh, we decided to take it on. And so I am I just you know, I feel you all. Uh I have someone on my team that helps me get all these episodes out. Her name's June. Shout out to June right now because I would not have gotten 250 episodes out otherwise. Um and uh like as as we were talking, I'm I'm thinking to myself, what were the shifts? So for me, there was like a hey, I wanted to get my business to be a much more stable business. And I knew that like I had gotten, I I love to talk. I'm comfortable bringing people onto the podcast, and I knew I could, I don't know, podcast people say yes to an invitation to podcast. You have yeah, you have like people reaching out to you and being like, hey, so uh I hear you have a podcast, could I get on it? Um, I was like, this is if I figured when I figured this out, it'd be really, really valuable. It's just a lot of work to get to them. Uh I'm curious, Steve. Do you mind if I if I actually share back something that I heard you say that that I got really curious about? Or that you said that the first time that you thought of the podcast, you just like recorded an episode and just got it out, you know? Um, and I'm wondering, like, Sophie, you made me think about this, which is like like I think about it like going to the gym. It's like there was a time where I could like, you know, bench press a certain number. But if I came back into the gym and try to do that same thing right now, having taken some time out, like I would get crushed underneath it, you know, and it feels like we're getting crushed. And so, like, my thought of like, well, what if we went back to like that first time we came to the gym? Usually every time I get back in the gym, I go for literally two minutes. I walk in in jeans and everything, and then like I spend two minutes in there. I'm like, okay, I'm here. And then I leave because I'm like, I just need to actually get in, I just need to actually walk into the gym. That's step one, let alone like work it out. So uh, so I let me toss it back over to you all here. Um, see if we can talk specifically about the podcast. Same thing with you, Sophie, or if you want to generalize it more a little bit, we can do that. But I think there's some real value in just being like, this is an actual real thing that we're trying to figure out. Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah. Um, so yeah, the the thing that really motivated me as I, you know, spun my wheels initially because uh with getting that first episode out, was I read something uh that said, uh, you know, your first your first book is gonna suck, your first movie will suck, the first song that you write will suck. It's like do it anyway, put it out there. And you know, I I go back sometimes and listen to my previous episodes that you know were only a few years ago, and I'm just like, wow, those were bad. You know, the editing, the sound quality, everything, you know. So, um, but when I was then I just I just did it. That's what I did. I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna record this and and edit it to the best of my ability and put it out and you know, start. Because if I get get the ball rolling, that gets me going somewhere. And I think that's a big part of it, is that first step. That's the hardest one to take. Um, and in you know, like in your gym analogy too, it's it's that every time I go to the gym and I get consistent and I do really well, and then I'll have, you know, I'll get sick or I'll maybe I'll, you know, I'm getting old, so I'll tweak a muscle. And so I'm like, okay, I guess I'll take some time off. And then it just starts to feel like, oh, it's this day, that day, that day. Next thing I know, I've been out five months. And I'm like, well, crap, now I gotta get back in again. And it is, it's that first step. Uh so sort of wrapping that up, you know, it it really just comes down to just do it. I I hate to steal from Nike, but you know, just do the thing, get it out there, uh, and see what happens. You know, you're nobody, you're not not the whole group, the whole world isn't gonna love it. You know, I've got plenty of friends that, you know, don't didn't support the podcast, uh, family members that didn't support the podcast. But I mean, even the woman that I was in a relationship with at the time didn't support my podcast. She hated that I was doing it. And but I just I felt like it needed to happen. Uh, so I just did it, put it out there, and it was okay initially, and it got better as time went on. I got better guests, I got better at interviewing, I got better at having conversations. So yeah, uh, you know, I would say just do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Sophie, what's flowing for you?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Well, I just want to agree with what Steve just said, because when I think about the first episode I recorded, I wasn't thinking much about that episode. I was just happy to um have people listen to my voice. That was just it for me. I was just happy to have something that I am doing that people are hearing. That was just it. So I wasn't bothered about oh um what am I going to talk about or um how how's it going to sound like? Um I'm I wasn't bothered about the details. So I think that's very important. Um, but for me right now, what is on my mind is um a lot of things have changed ever since the last time I recorded my last episode. So it's like what if I look like um I'm old school now to people as was just on my mind. What if I look like I don't know what's trending anymore? And I'm just like I would catch up after listening to what Steve has said, if I put out an episode and I see that oh, this is not what people like, there's something else that people like along the line I would catch up. So yes, I agree with Steve, you just have to do it, you don't have to think too much about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Uh I I love that you brought in like like what what if I'll be like old school about this, you know? What what if people want like it's so interesting, it's actually really helpful because literally we're at like a one-year anniversary from what was going on where I was at like last year. Um some of what's going on for me is um one the the component of like still gotta get people to listen to it. Like whether it's old school or not, like like there's there's there's there are other problems, like what part one is getting it out there, part two is is getting enough people to listen to it that they come back and they say, Hey, your thing's really old school, you're not keeping up with the trends. I'm like, if I have someone come and tell me that, I'm like, you're listening again, we got you, you know, like like that is a good problem to have. Like, I will take that problem. Um, so that's coming to me. Um, and then there's another thing that's coming in, which Sophia, I I I really think you you nailed it, which is um, you know, what got us started and what kept us going. And it's like, what got us started was like, like for me, I'm just like, like, oh, I can do that. That'd be cool. Let me just go do it. No one in my world is doing this. I think it'd be really fun. Let me go learn it, so on and so forth. And then at some point, I messed the whole thing up because I try and get good at it. You know, I've like like a whole thing, like there, y'all. The reason we have 250 episodes that that have been out in the last year is because like I stopped editing. Like, I'm like, like, I come in and I'm like, hey, we're just gonna have a good conversation and we're gonna make this conversation real and authentic and like and we're gonna get that out there because if I don't do that, I promise you, we will not have episodes, you know. And there's someone out there who really is like gonna be listening to this conversation with you, Steve, and this conversation with you, Sophie, and it's gonna be like, thank goodness this is happening because it is I actually have a chance to listen to it. If the conversation is good, like it's good. I used to spend like eight hours, like my first ever thing, I spent like eight hours on it. I was like, I cannot. Keep doing this. I would literally in the middle of people's words, the internet would chop off. And I'd be like, I think I could splice that into something, you know? Um, and eventually over time, I'm like, you know what? This is a podcast all about authenticity and being your authentic self. How can I make that happen if uh if I'm if I'm if I'm over editing? Steve, I don't know if this is something you want to take on, but you're like, this is a podcast called Multiple, like points of failure. Like, I want you to see the points of failure, you know, so we don't edit anymore. Like, like what like there's a there's a liveness to this that that that that allows for it. Like it almost becomes a feature and a benefit, and like and more of what like what actually leans into the actual idea. Uh I'll pause for a little bit here because I get excited about this stuff. I'm like, y'all, like what's once you hit record, we good. We good here. Uh it tickles me. Steve, what's what comes up to you when I say that?

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Oh, absolutely. I've actually been entertaining that because when I when I first started, yeah, I was the same. I'd get two or my first episode, it was three hours of recording, and then I had to cut through that. And that took, you know, like I don't know, two or three days, you know, to just sit down and just like cut through it. And the big thing was to to initially to Sophie's point, something she said earlier, I actually hated the sound of my voice when I heard it. I just was like, oh, I don't know if I'm cut out for this podcasting thing. This is just this is bad. And so it it took me a long time to really get comfortable with hearing my own voice. And then I discovered that certain things in conversation that you have with people when you're not recording, you're just sitting there at a table talking or whatever, you don't notice things like people, you know, sucking their teeth, like that thing, or they, you know, they whatever it is, the clicking their teeth and smacking all the stuff that when you put a set of headphones on and begin editing, it's just like, oh, it's right in my ears, you know. And I just I had to, I had, I had this notion that I needed to put out the perfect podcast episode because I needed to get hit the ground running and I needed people to just be like, that's the one I gotta listen to. And eventually I moved away from that and I began to just edit it more for time. So there wasn't a lot of dead space. Uh, if there were a lot of, you know, I mark them for people wanting to restart question answer, you know, the answer, that kind of thing. But I started trying to do less and less editing, and now I've gotten to a point where I really would like to do the only editing being like the intro and the outro and the call to action, but in the middle that that that meet to just kind of let it be a raw conversation, uh, you know, just you know, because that's that's what I've had is great conversations with people, and so I don't want it to feel as though I've gone in and chopped it up to make it sound a certain way. I really want people to be able to hear what what people have to say and that it's their story, and I don't want to create my own story with somebody else's story. So it's I'm definitely on board with with being a little bit more raw with what I release.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

We're just gonna keep playing. So if we anything comes to you on this here, and we we might we might go in a different direction, but I'm having fun with this for now.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

I totally agree because now that I think about it, the episodes that I did that were really great, they were the ones that I didn't edit too much. The ones that I edited too much, the ones that I cut out from particular things that people said because I felt it wasn't profile, it wasn't it wasn't sounding too nice. Those episodes didn't come off to people as natural, so they didn't really turn off for that episode as they would for episodes that I recorded natural. So now that um you said that and Steva said that, I feel that is something that can help me get back on track. I mean, I don't have to do so much, just the intro, the outro, and then I can leave the um podcast away too and I think we gotta have fun with this, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Like I and like I I think so if you were talking earlier about like oh what's the trend? And like all like inside of me, I'm just like, why don't you be the trend? You know? Like what what if the way you do it, someone else goes and listens and says, Oh wow, I really like the way that Sophie did this, or like y'all I don't know, like have y'all been on other podcast panels in the past? I have not, no. No, have you listened to other uh podcasts with panels on it, like on that like regularly? Yeah, right. So, like like part of why I like I like to do this year is like A before I did the panel, so like I spent a year doing one-on-one like interviews because that's what I knew, you know, and I was like, oh, I can reach out to people and do that. Not a year, I spent about six months, so from March to September of last year, I was doing that, and then in September, I was like, this is really working. Honestly, I thought of it as more of like a a the like a because it's part of how I meet new people in my world, I'm like, oh, I can instead of doing one-on-one, I could do like six-on-one. And there's a different level of like quality of relationship that that changes, so I'm I'm playing around with it right now. Um, but one of the things I really love about like the podcast panel is like one, everyone comes in, they like they get to meet each other. Y'all didn't know each other beforehand, and like you're in completely different parts of the world, like having a very similar story play out for you, you know. Two, like, we get a chance to experience this again. Like, you're like, Oh, I've been on the podcast panel. I didn't spontaneously combust. Maybe I do that for myself, you know. You get to hear, you get it, like I gotta. There's so many things that that that came up there, and I I'm thinking about this here because I get really curious about what each of you will offer to the both the podcasting world as well as to uh to your listeners by by creating something that only you would create, you know, mainly because it's like it's a thing that you like. I try not to listen to podcasts, like I'm afraid of listening because I'm like, I'm gonna start like getting other people's influence and then like and and that opportunity to be original or to be aligned or to whatever, like I'm gonna get in a game of comparison, all that. I'm like, like this here, like I know what I know what it takes for me to go out there, and maybe one day I'll hire someone to come back and do a whole lot of backlog editing, like all that stuff there. Maybe, but chances are people are gonna get you know several hundred episodes of a real person doing a real thing for real time. And once once everything changes, I'd be like, go back and listen to the beginning. I didn't start here. This is how I started, you know. And this is like I I bring up the number of episodes I do because I'm like, we release more in a year than most people release in four, even if they have like a week, like, and that means I got like I can come on and just hit record because I've got that much practice doing this, you know, like my skill set's gone up, so I get really like I get animated by this stuff because I'm like, oh yeah, you get like the there's so many like ongoing benefits of just showing up. And I'm using the podcast as a very specific example because we have a like a lot of synergy in this thing here. But to to you all and to any outliers out there, I feel like this is the opportunity we have. Like insert whatever project that you were doing, insert like whatever, like whether it was physical or it was a podcast, or like you used to write poetry, or you used to have a business, or whatever it is that was there. Like, I feel like we're a lot of these same things play out. I was known for something beforehand, I got good at it. I whatever it is got me in the game. Now I'm out of the game. Do I like who wants who would want me? Do I even know what's going on? So on like all these questions that we're at that we're talking about with the podcast, it's really just a frame for anything that we're taking on as we are returning back in, especially if we got good at it before we left. What are your thoughts on that, y'all?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. I, you know, it's I like where you're going with uh instead of listening to others and getting that influence, uh, because I I did it the other way. I actually listened to a lot of podcasts and thought, okay, what's what's a good structure? This is a really popular podcast. Um, you know, a couple of my favorite podcasts to listen to are you know are really huge. And it's I realized as I listened to those, I was like, okay, great format, great things here, but I don't have the the the base, the listener base. I don't have, you know, 60,000 downloads a month. I don't have sponsorships, you know, putting nine and a half million dollars in my bank account every year. I don't have the ability and the means to do this. So I can take this and I can sort of tweak it to I like this piece of it, I like that piece of it. And I really did want to make it something that was my own. So I I took it away from the typical uh question and answer type of interview, like a news, you know, thing, and did it more like what we're doing here. Uh, I had, you know, sort of prompting questions and I wanted to talk about backstories from my guests, but I really wanted it to be a conversation where I their story was being shared so that because the goal wasn't what am I doing to help people, even though that's what I wanted to do was to help, but the goal was I'm sort of facilitating this. I'm allowing this person's story to go out there, and and somebody else out there, you know, I'm interviewing a movie director, and somebody out there is like, I want to be a movie director, and he's talking about all the things that, you know, that are troublesome and you know, more, you know, you got to look out for this, you know. And I'm interviewing real estate agents and all these different things. And so my hope is that someone out there is hearing that and is thinking to themselves, you know, I want to do this thing, and oh my gosh, here's this episode, and this this person's on there and they do it, and I can learn something from it. I can take something from that and mitigate the failure. The failure's still there, you're gonna have your own failures, you know. It's originality isn't just in the success and the brand, it's also in the way that you fail because you're always everybody finds a new and different way to fail. And so uh I that was my goal in doing that. And so, you know, I really I'm really hoping that in stepping back into it and being a little bit more raw, I've got a few ideas right now and that are in the in the crock pot simmering in terms of trying to break back into the scene. Um, I'm really hoping to stay on that focus because my branding uh was very much, you know, the points of failure when I would talk to people because they'd hear that and they would always ask me, what made you want to do a show on failure? And you know, my answer always was sort of cheeky, and I was like, Well, my life has been a series of failures, may as well talk about it. You know, so that's kind of where I've gone with that.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

I mean, I love it. I'm sitting here, I'm smiling. Uh, I I just sent y'all uh a quote here by a very wise quote. Originality is not just the way you succeed, it's also in the way that you fail. Steve, I I like that that that gave me a chance to like sit back and and play with that. Like, like, how much would things change? And that wise now, I'm talking to you. How much would things change if you put your attention on how original your failures can be? Right? Like, what more what more freedom would you gain by being able to play in that world? Because that's I think a lot like underneath all this here is like oh like we started out with freedom. Gosh, I want to hear the sound of my voice. Like, like, man, I like this sounds really awesome. Like, I have these thoughts I want to bring out into the world, you know. Like, wouldn't it be cool if, like, why wouldn't I? Like, I love to talk. What if I can just get paid to talk? Like, that was like all the we all had all of our reasons for doing it. And then sometimes we accidentally mess it up because we we got in we got in our heads, you know? And I think that there's I I think there's something to this around like just allowing the the craft to be the craft. Um, I was hearing someone I um someone recently shared with me a story about uh that they heard about Harrison Ford. And they said that like Harrison Ford came out there and he said, like, how how have you been so successful as an actor when there's all these other actors and they haven't been? And he's and he the the story basically went uh Harrison Ford's like, well, when I when the cameras get get turned on, I'm employed to be an actor and you see the actor side of me. But all the other times, I'm a business person, you know, and it's that business person that that's helping all these other things go out. And I've been thinking about that here in this kind of conversation where it's like we have our podcast, but like beyond the podcast is all the other things we get to do, all the other connections we get to make, all the different like ways of getting people to know that that it even exists. Like there's just so much more things that we can be doing. Um, that I get excited. And yo, like Steve, Sophie, if either of you want to just like pop this episode like literally onto your feed, like feel free, go use it. Like, like, like immediately change, like it went from zero to something, right? And it's like, and you know, you can put in a beginning before, you could not, like whatever it is, but like like hey, just so you know, I've been gone for a while. This is what I've been dealing with, this is where I'm at, and this is my commitment to you all. And so if you don't see me at it, if you do see this, like whatever it is that you want to put in there, you can give it a little bit of a little bit of a flavor, and then immediately get over like the there's zero episode thing. I I I honestly I as someone who started and stopped a lot, um, being able to put the wrapper of seasons has helped, but the other part of it is just like having that honest conversation with the listenership, knowing that I'm starting I have to start all over again in some ways, but to have that that honest conversation for someone that's coming in, I and guess what? I realized as I say this here, I was talking about as for someone that's coming in. I'm like, no, no, no. It's really for me. It's for me to not feel like I'm an imposter or I'm a fraud. And I'm like, let me call myself out for all or call myself in for all the things that I think other people are gonna say about this and have and put that out there preemptively for myself. So I'm not I'm not like thinking in the back of my mind about this stuff. It's like I already I had an episode, I said it, I put all that stuff out there, and now on to the next. Y'all, this has been energizing here. Um, to be honest, I haven't had a conversation like this in in these conversations here. So like I I want to thank you all. Like, I'm experimenting, I'm making it up as we as I go along. I'm I'm still trying to find my voice. You would think after all these episodes, all these years, that I would know what my voice is. And I'm like, I don't know yet, you know, but I do know I love meeting awesome people who are taking the world and saying, I want to design something from it. I love being in your spaces. Um, I get like today I get your challenges. I I like and I think these are the real challenges out there, you know, these are the places where if you're creating something that feels different or new or new for you, whatever it is, like this is what we go against, you know. So I just I I'm deeply grateful for the two of you. I'm deeply grateful for the two of you in the sense that you both uh chose to come and play with an open heart uh and to not hide what is what is happening inside, so that we all get a chance to really benefit from uh uh being able to see ourselves in each of you. So thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for having us. We're about to wrap up here. The way that I wrap up, uh Yeah, Sophie, what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Oh, yeah, most certainly. Like we're about to wrap up. The way I like to wrap up is that I want each of you to share like the best way for someone to follow, follow up with you. And it might be to tell them to go over to your podcast. That's like that's that's cool. All right. Um, but let let them know the best way that they they can continue with you. And then what we're gonna take here, I I end every episode with what I call uh an insight. So we're gonna leave outliers uh like to to that they're part of this, they've gotten what they need to get from here. And outliers, I'm gonna make an ask of you. If you love what happened in this conversation, please, even if you didn't like this this podcast grows by word of mouth. If you can share this with your world and help elevate this message, that would be an absolutely fantastic. And if you're willing to go deeper with us, think about one person in your world who would really benefit from this and share it with them as a gift. We call it the one person, one conversation at a time initiative. Uh, and it's like, I think it's one of the most impactful things we can do here on this podcast. So if you can join us in this conversation by elevating and deepening the conversation out in the world, it would mean the absolute world to me. So thank you. So, Steve, I'm gonna come to you first. Actually, no, I've come to Steve first on everything, so I'm gonna Sophie now. Sophie, we're coming to you first, right? Um, would you mind sharing with us how outliers can uh go deeper in your world, how they can how they can stay in your world, and then uh what is an insight you got from today's conversation, if anything.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

All right, outliners, you can connect with me on Instagram at SophieSoopine, and I have a podcast on that page. I would love you all to go through or just check anyone you feel interested in. It's called Talk Sessions with Sophie. I realize I've not said anything about my podcast. My podcast is called Talk Sessions with Sophie, and it's a really cool, interesting podcast for young adults. So any young adult on here, I feel like you would really enjoy that podcast. Um I've taken so much away from this conversation, but one thing that shocked me is what Steve said. Just do it. It's as simple as that. Just do it. Don't think too much about the details. Don't think too much about if you sound old school, if you sound trendy, just do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Thank you, Sophie. You know, I I had it in my mind here. I smiled at myself. I'm like, maybe just saying your podcast name out loud is the equivalent of walking in the gym for two minutes, you know? Like, just like, oh yeah, by the way, like this is it, right? So, like, we're we're we're getting in it, we're getting back in into the group of it all. Yeah, yeah. Steve, how about you? How can outliers go deeper uh down the journey with you? And what's an insight you got from this conversation, if any?

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah, um, they can find me on on all the the big socials, Facebook and Instagram, uh Steve Cawthran. And my Instagram page, actually, and the Facebook page both have all of my business links for my writing, my photography, and for the podcast. The podcasts would be preferable for you to to tap into. Um, and then you can also go to the uh website link, which is uh points of failure.bussprout.com. That's where it's hosted right now. Um, and as far as insights, um, I actually took a few. Um, you know, uh one is is the authenticity piece and and just the being raw and not committing so much to the perfection because what is it that perfection's the enemy of the good? And and I I feel like it just that constant desire to just release this most impactful episode just creates such a uh a dressed up box of junk that I just you know I want to move away from that and I want to get back into to really creating something. And I think that that rawness that that you spoke of um was really good. And uh something that Sophie said, you know, the the the voice, as much as I hated hearing my voice in the beginning, the time now that I've put into it isn't so much about I love to hear my voice, but I know that my voice, not necessarily audibly, but that the voice itself has its own impact that I'm hoping to put out there and some weight to it. Um, and you know, working on my my bassy radio voice and trying to get down there. So but other than that, um, yeah, just really putting something out there that is gonna that is going to give back that something, the hope is that somebody takes something from every episode. That is that is what I hope for.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Well, I am I am really, really grateful for you uh for you all here. I I I've never played this game too. I usually ask my my the people who come on and I and I'd be like, okay, bye. Uh but I also say like like here's the gift that you both have given me. Um the gift that you've given me is to like you've given me a chance to actually speak about the last year. Because I kind of I can sometimes just go. Um and I didn't and like as we're talking, I'm like, wow, like this is not platitudes, not like like I actually have an experience of a year's worth of this stuff underneath me. That's part of the reason why I had to like go look this up. I'm like, I think I should see like what have I done, because I didn't have that beforehand, and so um I'm really grateful for that gift that y'all y'all are giving me. Like, and I'll leave you with this one what's one other gift that you gave me, which is that I forgot that I really do enjoy having multiple people together. The last few days I've been uh recording and doing just one-on-one, and I'm like, oh, I have to get this other thing done behind the scenes, and then I'll get back in the panels. And I'm doing this today. I'm like, yo, this this energy actually feels good. I want to follow this energy going forward. And I I had forgotten that I forgot what it felt like. And so um just thank you. Thank you. Y'all, y'all have done something really incredible, and you've given me quite quite a lot. Well, outliers, this is how the game goes. Like, we we show up and we play every day and we we do our best, you know, and to to to keep moving forward. So, with that here, uh, I'm gonna invite you to do something that that really just means a lot to me, which is to go out and be you on purpose. Journey on.