S2E15 - Mental speed limits

On this episode, we talk to Dustin Solomon, owner of Mutiny FX, an Arkansas-based visual effects company that has been creating VFX work for over 12 years on shows with companies like Netflix, Disney+, and Universal. He is a widowed father of two and a small business owner, so he spends a good deal of time with one eye open, one eye closed, and fingers crossed on both hands. We discuss mental speed limits, parenting, and the perfect gift.

https://mutinyfx.com

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Coming up on points of failure.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Do we become who we have to be? And the idea behind that is like as doing a lot of reading and studying into um like uh our neurobiology and how our brains work and how they're wired, and you know, um is there a speed limit that's unique to each one of us?

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Welcome to the Points of Failure podcast. I'm your host, Steve Coffran. On points of failure, we discuss all kinds of failure from an action to impulse. We have conversations with guests, which are their knowledge, their successes, and of course, the failures. I hope that you'll find something useful in each episode to help you understand the impulseful you have failed. We discussed mental speed limits and the perfect gift. Hope you enjoyed this episode. We are here today with Dustin Solomon. Uh I'll Dustin, I'll just let you kind of give us some quick background, take us from you don't have to go all the way back to conception per se, but uh take us back to where you got kicked off. You know, what what made you do this type of business that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Well, shoot, because I was planning on starting at conception.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

So I mean you can, you can.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Um Yeah, no, I think I think that my my personal story, you know, I mean, definitely kind of leads into where you know I am professionally currently. But um, you know, just kind of starting there and and looking at that. Um, I own a visual effects company called Mutiny Effects, and we do primarily visual effects work for film and television. Uh, we tried really hard in the early days, I think, to to sort of service a lot of creative um, you know, components to that, from editing to color correction, things like that, and quickly discovered that um, you know, falling into the jack of all trades, king and nun wasn't really serving the business, and that by focusing, it was a lot easier to define who we were, what we were doing, especially in this industry doing visual effects work. That's like um, you know, really hard to explain to people who aren't in the industry. So I think by specializing that really helped. And so we took on the task of attempting to build a visual effects company in northwest Arkansas, which was probably the hardest thing that could have been done. It is the uh least compatible uh setup. But um ultimately I think uh, you know, we we tapped into some stuff in the industry that was in our favor and gave us a chance to actually give a good go at it. Good deal.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

So visual effects, is that like digital for um animation or is that live action? What kind of effects do you guys do?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, we focus uh so doing the visual effects work that we do, we focus mostly on augmenting live action film and television. So from adding fire and explosions to city extensions, replacing screens on phones and TVs. That's like at this point, if you're watching anything on TV and somebody's using a laptop or watching T, it's not there. That's nice. That is all added at this point. Oh, wow, that's interesting. Because it's just too much work to time the shots to the content on the screen, so it's way easier to just add it in later. So um that is that's the bulk of what we do. Um, certainly nothing fancy, no, no uh Marvel cinematic universe for us, but uh we have fun doing the bread and butter work.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

That's cool. Good deal. So, how did you uh what what got you into that? What what was the the spark that made you decide you want to do visual effects?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I think what really opened the door for me into doing visual effects, uh, and I'm gonna be right up there with everyone else, was all the classic cinema at Jurassic Park, Star Wars, you know, back to the future, and being a kid and seeing the stuff on TV and just going, okay, hold on a second. Wait, like I can create whatever reality I want to see. Like I don't have to live in this reality, I can make a different one. And uh so that that that started me down a path. I mean, I remember being, I don't know, maybe 11, 12, my friends, and we get their like camcorders and uh it started as special effects because there was no computers back in the day, but it was like, you know, can we spray some hairspray through a match and make an explosion and light this you know matchbox car on fire? And can we do it in a way that makes it look like a shot? It didn't, it looked horrible. That's where you start, right? You start looking horrible and you figure out how do you make it less horrible over time, you know. But it just it captured my attention in this whole like, you know, we can creatively redefine our reality um for entertainment. So very cool.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

So what do you think? Um, well, have you experienced any barriers to to for your business? I mean, you said it was difficult doing it in northwest Arkansas. Is that just because it's a small town over here, or are there other barriers to entry that you sort of experience in that business?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, for sure. Um I think what when looking at the business and the barriers that we uh are faced with, um a lot of times when I stop and I think about like a place that I'm at in life is is kind of coming to this realization that literally everything is a double-edged sword. Um there's no uh you know pro without a con. Everything comes hand in hand, and I think a lot of it is sort of like figuring out how to navigate and mitigate that. And so, but conversely, something that looks like uh a shortcoming can also then be turned into something that you can use in your advantage. And um so with mutiny, it was it was a a series of events that kind of forced me into starting this business here. I had a house, I was trying to sell it, couldn't sell it, ended up having to move back, kids, you know, life, these sorts of things. And eventually faced this idea of okay, well, if I can't go to the work, how do I bring the work to me? And this was this was back in uh 2011. And there was sort of this the the advent of you know, we were getting fiber internet into the area, you had really fast speeds, um, you know, off-the-shelf computer components and software was really coming down inside of the visual effects industry. And at the same time, streaming services were launching, and there was this massive pressure for low-cost content. And the problem was that visual effects companies as a whole are really high overhead endeavors, the technology, the software, the everything that goes into it. So there was this gap kind of like right in the middle. And what was starting to fill that gap was a lot of uh secondary services from companies like in India that were doing a lot of the rotoscoping and tracking kind of grunt work that went into a lot of these shots. So the industry was already opening its mind to remote work, like companies that were not stationed in California, um, as well as chasing a lot of the state incentives that that's which is why so many Marvel films are shot in Georgia now, um, is because the states were putting out incentives to do the work outside of California and Arkansas, you know, fell into that space as well. So it was kind of looking at going, okay, you know, how can we, instead of trying to be like the competition, what can we be that's unique to us? And our model was off the shelf, low cost, um, with a focus on the talent over the equipment. And so that's kind of where we started Mutiny from. And it and it worked really well for us. So there was a lot of shock from a lot of the companies that we worked with that they were able to get the quality of work that they got at the cost because we were just taking advantage of being in Northwest Arkansas and not trying to be flashy and just trying to use off-the-shelf hardware and software, um, which then eventually just door after door, you know, led to the point that we, you know, fortunately got to work on some Netflix originals. We worked for Universal 1440, um, and just kind of worked our way into a spot that people trusted, even though we weren't glitzy and shiny and you know, somewhere fancy, that we would get the job done.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

So nice. That's uh that's pretty cool. Netflix and uh can you can you tell people what those were?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Uh it's uh so like our universal stuff, um it's it's all of the the really uh cheap spin-offs of of successful franchises, you know. So we were working on, you know, the that department did all like Tremors 5 and you know, all that kind of stuff. So we were working on, you know, uh like Tales from the Hood sequels, half-baked sequel, and you just a lot of that kind of stuff. So it was it was nice, it was good work for us, it was the right size for our company. Um, but if you're not, you know, into the late night spin-off content, you know, that's that's a little bit more where we land. All right.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Well, yeah, that's listen, it's the it's the you gotta lay the foundation, right? So that every brick, every brick counts. Right. So what do you think? Um are those barriers that you experience, you feel like those are typical, or do you think that there are other barriers that might be more experienced, you know, by by other folks? I mean, do you like that's sort of a confusing question? Does it feel like it's a typical your barriers, or is that unique to what you experience being in Arkansas?

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Um, I you know, I think that's that our our barriers are kind of unique. I mean, Northwest Arkansas is certainly a an incubator for so many businesses and so many things. I think that for us, we're such an outlier that the the film industry as a whole doesn't even necessarily have a presence here. So a lot of the barriers that we run into, and I think this is that that other side of the sword that I was mentioning, that on one hand, uh you know, we have the the low cost um like operating that we're we're taking advantage of technology and stuff like that to work from this location that we're not, you know, we don't have the same sort of overhead that that a studio out in California might have. The flip side to that is we don't have exposure, we don't run into people on the street every day, we're not building those connections, you know, as readily. Talent is super hard to find. Um, you know, we have to import people, we have to convince them that moving to Northwest Arkansas is okay. Like, because they have no fallback. You know, if it doesn't work out with us, where are they gonna go work? Right. There's no we don't have competition, and that would be the greatest thing. Like if if five other visual effects companies opened up in Northwest Arkansas, I'd be over the moon because then we would be having you know shared resources. It talent would be more likely to come work for us because they know if it don't work out here, they can hop to another business. But being completely siloed, sure, um, it does does create um an unforeseen and unique set of challenges that I don't think in the early days I was like, well, what happens if we're successful? Like, and when we get to that point, what are my new things that I should have been thinking about?

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Um, so that's why I love these conversations because there's so many things that you know I if somebody asked me, you know, how would you go about starting the visual effects business? I'd be like, well, I wouldn't because I don't know the first thing about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

But I would also say knowing as much as I know about it, I would also say don't. Having done this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

So um what sort of failures do you think that you like what is your what biggest failures did you have? What things really taught you something? Because I mean everybody has their, oh, I should have done that thing differently or whatever, but what sort of failures did you experience that really taught you something about moving forward in your business? Like, okay, that I can't do again, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Um, so I like are we we're ready to get existential? Sure. Yeah. What does it mean to be a human? Um exactly. Uh no, I think that um uh one of the things that was and I'll try not to to get off on too many tangents or or rabbit trail for too long here, you know, but um it is something that I we were I was just talking to somebody about was you you know being a child of the 70s and what does that mean and having grown up in this concept of of sort of anything is possible, right? Like you do just a lot of these outside of the box thinkers and tech startups and everything that just launched from you know the children of of the 70s and when they became and they got to that that age. And it was this idea that you can do anything and be anything almost. Um just like, I don't know, you want to you want to start Google in your garage? Okay, why not? Right. And you know, my my I'm really grateful for my parents. Um they it was that they're super fascinating. My dad was a uh a redneck from the panhandle of Florida kind of thing, who was just like a workaholic and worked like not in a not in like the destructive way, but certainly in the like 60, 70 hours a week, he'd work overnights like doing construction um to pay for everything. And my mom was like a a died-in-the-wool hippie. Um so it just it got, you know, both ends of the spectrum, like a massive work ethic, and at the same time, just sort of this like, you know, why are we here? Yeah, uh how can you be so chill and driven at the same time? Right, you know, and like trying to put those together, but they would they definitely instilled in me this idea of like, um, you know, go out, what do you want to do? Just do it. Like you, you are your biggest limitation, right? Kind of concept. Yeah, it's something that uh I'm kind of working through right now is um this this concept of do we really get to be who we want to be, or do we become who we have to be? And the idea behind that is like as doing a lot of reading and studying into um like uh our neural biology and how our brains work and how they're wired, and you know, um is there a speed limit that's unique to each one of us that we can go at in the way that our brain processes, right? And is it is it a fallacy or a misnomer to tell everybody that they can be anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

And I I say that because one of the things that I challenged myself on was I have this entrepreneurial spirit, and Mutiny is my second business I've started. Every company I've worked for has been a startup. Um, I've never worked for a long-term established large business just because the way that I operate um is just very much in this sort of sandboxing kind of concept. Um, but kind of going back to the hiring, that that thought process of like, well, what do you do once you're successful? Right. And I realized that uh for myself, I I call myself uh either a battlefield general or a triage doctor that I handle stress really well. I handle outside of the box thinking really well, but once things are running smoothly, my brain starts to become dysfunctional. Interesting. Um, it's it's now because the conversation has switched from what's necessary to what is ideal. And I have found that I don't have a a great grasp or a concept on what is ideal. So in a in the business world, we got to pay these bills. I have to make the machines that I have on hand work. And if it's not perfect, it's okay, but it's done, right? Not perfect, but complete. Yeah. But then as the business became successful and completion was easy, completion was mundane, completion was the the daily activity, the the conversations and the rhetoric started to shift to, well, well, then what's the ideal? Like, what does this become? How does it perfect itself? Yeah. And then my brain was like, I don't know. I don't know. How does that work? Right. And at first I thought it was just like a, you know, like, no, no, I can, I can willpower myself into this and and possibly could have, you know, like if I had just really focused myself, maybe I could have transformed myself into this person. But ultimately, is that who I am? Like, am I being genuine to myself? Yeah. Like, is that going to bring fulfillment and joy just because I can force myself into that box? Or is it just accepting this is who I am? The best I can do is to pursue the things that come naturally to me. Not to say that we shouldn't really ever like better ourselves or push the limits, you know. But um, and that's kind of where I started down this road of being like, is is there a version of me that I need to respect that is me and how can I support that person?

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Very interesting. It's interesting you bring that up because I uh there's two things. One, the your question about, you know, is it a misnomer to tell people that they can be anything they want? And I have to say that for a while now I found that to be a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people tell their kids that, because for instance, I have to wear contacts, I have terrible vision. Uh I could never be a fighter pilot, no matter how badly I want to. I could have gone when I was younger and got the LASIK or whatever, but actually when I was younger, LASIK wasn't a thing. So still out of it. Yeah, that's you know, now that I'm almost 50, it's still not a thing. So, but uh yeah, so I mean I I can't be a pilot, right? I can't do that. And so I've always for not always, but for some time now, I've asked myself, you know, or I guess I've thought through that, you know, does it make sense to tell kids you can be anything you want to be, or does it make more sense to say you can be the things that you want to be if you're willing to put in the effort, you know, if you really want to work for that. So there's that piece for me. And the other side of it, listening to you talk about, you know, the you know how the brains operate and such, um it sounds to me like you're kind of a problem solver. And I think that sounds like that's where your brain functions. It's like when there's a problem to solve, I'm in it. Man, I'm high gear, I'm killing it. Now that it's solved, I'll just wait for the next problem.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Right, exactly, right? And then I've got to be like, you know, self-conscious enough to be like am I creating problems just to be able to solve them, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Exactly. I just need to solve something. So do you think that there's an education like is formal education necessary to break into the the business? Because you know, there's a lot of things that obviously you have to have some. You gotta be a doctor, right? You can be a lawyer, you gotta do that. But I think there are a lot of things that I feel like, and I've got a business degree and a master's degree, and I'm thinking I probably could have learned just as much, if not more, if I'd just gone out and done it, as opposed to spending the money.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

So do you think that's necessary? Um, so I I think that whether or not you need a formal education in certain industries is again one of those double-edged swords that I'm finding myself sort of waffling back and forth between because will you know, anytime you you you pick right, you're depriving left of of its components. And so um, you know, I'll be transparent. Uh my oldest did not go to school, uh, straight into the workforce, uh doing programming, and and took off and and did a fantastic job with it and super successful um in that field. And when a lot of people come to me and say, okay, for for this industry, computer animation, graphics, you know, visual effects, I don't have the clear answer to that. And I am gonna be curious to see, but I do feel like what if we look back in time, there was a moment when um higher education was designed around uh specifically the intellectual endeavors, things that required research and um digging deep into stuff. And then you had vocational training. Um, and a lot of people would finish high school and go into vocational training. What I've noticed is that with the acceleration of technology that inside of the traditional school system, a lot of the professors and curriculum are falling behind the speed at which the industry is developing. And if somebody's heart is completely set on getting into this kind of work, that bypassing uh traditional education and going straight into the workforce puts them head and shoulders above the competition. Because, you know, if an 18-year-old starts interning at a visual effects company by the time they're 22, they're gonna be masters in certain crafts. And I've seen the portfolios of students coming out of college and their work at 22 is is barely passable because they diluted their education. They maybe even learned stuff that was a step behind the industry. And so on a competitive level in an industry where your portfolio is all that matters, yeah. Like, in fact, this industry is is so full of people who don't fit the mold that a lot of times the students who've got really bad GPAs are the ones that are the best at this because they they are the ones that are like a little bit more creative and a little bit more willing to experiment and don't just, you know, aren't really great at test taking, but boy, you give them, you know, an intangible problem. Inside of a computer to solve and their brains just all over it, you know? Um, so yeah, like I I don't feel like the traditional model is is servicing the potentials of a lot of the emerging industries. On the flip side of that, um, and and something that I have some personal contact with, you lose out on the social component, right? The the group problem solving, the um, you know, managing your schedules, the open-mindedness to taking, you know, your core classes of sociology and all the other stuff you have to do. And it and it kind of broadens your perspective because like one of my favorite movie phrases uh is from The Matrix, and the Oracle is talking to Neo, and the Oracle says, we can't see beyond the questions we don't know to ask. And that's just like so profound to me that we are limited by what we don't know. Sure. And so with the more exposure you give yourself to a broader range of ideas, the more correct questions you know to ask. And those open the doors for you. And so it's there's a there's a danger to being too focused and too, you know, straight to the point in your work that maybe you're not cross-pollinating ideas as much as possible.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Interesting. What would you tell somebody that somebody aspiring that what the the single piece of advice you could give somebody that says, Hey man, I want to be a visual effects guy? What's the what's the one thing that you would say, take this with you because it's gonna it's gonna keep you alive?

SPEAKER_01 23:31

This is a very good question because I am like currently trying to, you know, work with John Brown University and and some other educational institutions on creating curriculum, you know, for people who want to get into you know the visual effects computer animation um industry. And I think that the the one point of advice uh would be that like don't I think is don't get comfortable uh because what we're currently seeing is a massive upheaval in how this industry works. It is going through one of the biggest transformations, uh, I think that it's seen in a very long time. And that's that's relevant, like you can see that in if you've watched The Mandalorian uh, you know, or watched uh 1899. So and they're using what they call the volume, which is a real-time background projection system for creating worlds.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

And so the traditional way of shooting somebody on green screen and then running it through the compositor and then building out background animations and and and you know, compiling all of that in post is turning into everything being run through a game engine. Oh wow and that game engine is running the backgrounds in real time and they're shooting everything on set and then just maybe touching it up later in post, but most of it's being done. So what's happening is is that the the method in which this work is being done, and it's and it's uh it's a something that we're having to address as a company, which is are we about to get you know uh outmoded over the next decade where production's gonna move into this new space? And are we in a position to be able to redefine what we do, you know, or do we just accept that we're gonna sort of become a legacy service that will, you know, provide like provide a service for a while, but is not the future. And the future is gonna be something completely different, right? Um, so I think that someone who's interested in getting into this industry, you definitely, I mean, I think everything changes over time, but some more than others, where you know, in a moment it completely redefines itself. Um, you know, I mean, we're I think when we're looking at machine learning and AI and everything, and we are on the cusp of a whole bunch of industries that are about to get completely redefined.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

So yeah, it's actually uh it's kind of terrifying. I have all this stuff coming, like the deep fakes and all that jazz. It's it's really really scary, actually, because uh we all know the deep fake thing is not gonna be used for fun or for movies. I mean, to some extent it may be, but it's it's gonna be used to to push agendas and everything else. And it's just terrifying, man. But uh do you have uh any any fine parting thoughts, final words before I've got some questions I'll throw at you here to wrap it up, but if there's anything you want to put out there?

SPEAKER_01 26:31

For sure. Um, you know, I I think that like for me, the kind of coming on and and having this conversation with you, I think one of the um the driving components to it is is it's it's not when when I'm thinking about your topics and points of failure and things like that. I think what's really challenging to me um is that you can't really everything in life is such a web, you know, and it's really easy to hyperfixate on one component to it. And you know, on a personal level, you know, gone through a lot of things over the last few years, um, like with my wife passing away and raising the kids on my own. And something that I think that there's not I didn't give myself enough respect for was how in interrelated every component of our life is to everything else, you know, and so like looking at the business and wanting to say, okay, like can I really segregate my professional life and my personal life? Like, do they exist in vacuums or do they not? You know, and then realizing that there's that uh I think it's twofold. One, giving ourselves some leeway uh and and forgiveness. Yeah, we're having to deal with the complexities of life, and then how those manifest, you know, in other places. Because 2020 I know like flipped a lot of things on its head for a lot of people. Um but you know, like for me it was one of those things that it kind of did that, and our industry shut down completely because there was no films being shot, nobody's on set, nobody was allowed to do that kind of stuff. And I kind of hit this wall, and I realized that I I became very disgruntled with my business. Like I almost got to the point that I was loathing its existence, it felt like this um, you know, burden that I was fighting against, and it wasn't like moving forward and developing and creating, you know, in the face of this, and that would seem logical on the surface, uh, you know, but I think it's I had to dig a lot deeper. And for me realizing that experiencing some of the hardships and loss that I had experienced in my life, that this idea of investing into something and then having it not work out was then subconsciously transferring itself into the business. And that that part of my personal life that hadn't been resolved completely was then overlapping, and I didn't even realize that it was it was undermining my ability to even function on the professional level because I was just looking at it as something that's like you know, oh it doesn't matter, like it's just like that rug's gonna get ripped out from underneath, you know. It's like um and so like kind of coming out on the back side of that, and I think finding a whole new respect for like like wellness as a whole, um, and that allowing yourself the space personally off the books is paramount to allowing that professional space to to grow because like it's almost like you know, being the soil to what you're trying to grow. If the soil's bad, nothing's gonna grow in it no matter how much you try to take care of it on the surface. So uh it's been a journey for me, just like marrying those two together. You'd think as somebody who started small businesses or you would know how interrelated those two things are, but it didn't, it took me time uh to to figure that out and sort of deconstruct that.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Sure, yeah. Yeah, it's uh it it reminds uh I've heard it so many times and I've stolen it and used it the uh you can't give what you don't have kind of thing, and you you gotta really take care of yourself first. You know, even as a parent, um, that was something I struggled with uh being a single dad myself to some extent. I I really struggled with how do I make sure that I'm good because I can't give to my kids. I can't take care of them if I'm not okay, you know. So what does that look like? What does that mean? Now, I probably wasn't entirely certain of what that meant at the time when I thought through it, but I I tried, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

But uh well, I think I think that's you know, also a thing that it has been a learning process over these years and will be for the rest of my life, which is um, you know, w hindsight's always 2020. Yeah, but in the moment there is an acceptance of like sometimes doing the best you can with what you have, right? And if you don't allow yourself to celebrate that success, even as imperfect as it might be, yeah, then you know you're sabotaging the energy that you need to carry into the next step. And so it's sort of like being like, okay, you know what? You know what? I wasn't perfect, it was the best that I could do at the time, you know, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes you just have to sit with it, you know, just take it for what it is. Yeah, it's uh man, that's it's true. It's it's I feel like every every new maybe 10 years or so, or five years even, I feel like I'm readjusting. Like now I raised my kids, well now they're all out. So now I'm relearning how to be a dad in the realm of not being their father, you know. I'm just now I'm just dad, you know, I'm just I'm there, you know. So like how do I feel that role now? Like now they come to me and say, Hey dad. I'm like, wait, am I giving advice? What am I doing? Right. Like am I supposed to be giving advice?

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Like versus where I'm not supposed to, and let them figure it out. Oh like where do I let them have the leash?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

You know, where's the rule book? Yeah, yeah. Who where yes, thank you. Where is that book? Somebody should won't do me any good now, but you know. All right. Well, uh oh real quick, do you want to plug your business in like that before I wrap this up?

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Uh I mean, it it is kind of hard to plug this business if you would like to add an explosion or an alien spaceship uh to whatever it is you're doing. I think those are both very important. It's uh in fact, everything probably needs an alien spaceship. If you haven't thought about it, just think about it. Um, you know, but no, for sure, we we enjoy helping people tell stories. Um the bulk of our work is in film and television, you know, but uh we've worked with a lot of ad agencies to just sort of spice things up just a little bit and and bring a creative twist to what would otherwise be a mundane uh project sometimes. But uh we we enjoy collaborating with people and and figuring out how we can bring again, like you can't see beyond the questions you don't know to ask. A lot of times we do just sit down with people and be like, well, what do you want to do? Did you know you could? Yeah, and then you present ideas, so we like to brainstorm with people.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Nice little effects consultation. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Where where can you plug it in? Yeah, right. You know, maybe you didn't know you could.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Exactly. That's mutiny effects, and I'll put that in the in the show notes. Um, all right. So let's wrap this up. I like to do a little few questions here that are fun, just kind of chuck them out there at the end, keep it interesting. So um, if you died and came back as a cartoon character, who would it be?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Um I I don't know why this just jumped into my head, but you know, I don't know, it's subconscious leads, you know, it that's where the truth resides. So um uh I I would probably have to come back as Phineas. Okay. Nice, you know. Phineas and Furb. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Very cool. All right. If you could recommend only one book to anybody that asks, which one would it be?

SPEAKER_01 34:07

So so this is where I confess that uh reading books is a challenge. Um I so I don't have I do not have uh a lot uh to pull from. I do tend to gravitate slightly towards kind of quirky um and educational style books. But um a book that I actually read cover to cover, um, and I'm gonna butcher the name here. There's a YouTube channel called Kyrgyzstat, and they do like animated um educational videos on science and humanity and stuff like that. And the the author of it um he wrote a book called Um Immunity, and it just basically breaks down how the human body works.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

And uh it was it was a humbling read as you get into it and you realize that at any minute we are all just moments away from our bodies killing us, and that it is a delicate song and dance that keeps uh us alive. And um, I think it it was a little um stressful and existentially sort of like you know, am I gonna be okay tomorrow? But at the same time, just like uh an amazement. Um, but you know, I I really enjoyed that book and it and it helped me get a better idea of like my personal health and stuff like that. So nice.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

I'm I'm kind of the same as you when it comes to books, I think. I I don't I'm not the guy that goes out, I don't grab the fiction books. Not, I mean, I love my Lord of the Rings and you know, there's some sci-fi stuff out and some fiction I have read and a lot of the classics, but I I I gravitate toward the educational things. I like philosophy and history and science books and self-help books and whatever. I don't have to call them self-help, but you know, things that help me understand myself better. Right. So definitely my favorite book right now, still to this day. I need to reread it. Um, is uh Mark Manson wrote a book called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Oh, yeah, I watched uh I I watched the way Don't Judge Me. I watched his uh Netflix piece. Oh, I haven't seen that yet with my kids. Okay, and it was pretty fantastic, obviously not nearly going into depth.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah, but I need to check that out because I I've been meaning to see that because I I yeah his I love I love pretty much all of his writing. Um one of his books I wasn't that keen on, but uh but overall, I just I I think it's great. But um okay, so uh what is the last gift that you gave someone?

SPEAKER_01 36:40

The last gift. Well, um so interestingly, um my daughter's birthday was just two days ago. Oh um, and uh I definitely in that category of you know, I actually didn't get her a gift for her birthday. What we did do is um the I had asked her, she's turned she turned 17, and I was like, what do you want to do for your 17th birthday? And she told me that as her her last year as a kid, you know, that she wanted to have a like a proper tea party, um, all the bells and whistles dressed up, glassware out in a field underneath a tree, kind of a deal. Um, and so that's that's what we ended up doing. And and that was sort of like my gift to her was to create this experience. Um and yes, in the world of gifts, uh, I think for some people, like myself included, sometimes it's it's the it's the gift of the time um in the experience.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Oh, 100%. Yeah, I agree with that. I would I would much rather be given somebody's time, yeah, or do something experiential, yeah, than oh, cool. I got a new, you know, shoes or socks or something. I imagine your your daughter appreciated that a lot more too than than a new car or whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Well, I don't think I should have gotten a bit of a toss at the scales are not.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Well, she's she's unfortunately um her first car um is I I think the first car that everybody should have, you know, which is which is a little needy, you know. Um she has to top off her coolant, it kind of leaks a little bit, it's got a few problems, but you know, I was like, hey, listen, here's the deal. If you just jump straight into it being easy, you don't respect the process. Everybody's gotta have a beater first, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, kids today don't understand it, man. I I worked hard for my very first car was this old Mustang LX and 86 that was my dad's company car, and uh it was beat to hell. I mean, it was this silver paint job that was rusted and this horrible red felt interior that was just fading, and I got that thing and I was like, you guys are killing me. So my dad he had a landscaping business, landscape design, and he had barter credit with this guy that did like um auto body work and whatever. So I for I think I worked for like a month every weekend, maybe every week, I don't know, but I I busted my butt to trade out for the work. So I got this really nice bright red paint job on it and this black vinyl interior. It was really nice. Fantastic. I was proud of it. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Right, and there's something to say about that, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Like earning something, yeah, it brings value in its own right. Absolutely, it does. It really does. Um, all right. What is this will be a fun one? What is an unpopular opinion that you hold?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Um this is where I confess that I'm actually just trying to figure out which one. Yeah, right. I'm pretty sure all of my opinions are unpopular. I have quite a few of those. Um no, I think uh I and I think it's just because I I'm having a hard time cutting through just this one that's popping up because uh we mentioned it earlier when we were in discussion about um can we be whatever we want to be or do we have to be what we have to be? Oh, sure. Um and I I I find a lot of people bristle when I start talking like that, when I start, you know, toying around with the concepts of of genetics and biology and our brain wiring. And, you know, uh lately I've been having a lot of opportunities to talk with people, you know, who maybe be like diagnosed with with various, I don't, you know, wanna like what do they call it, uh neurodivergent tendencies and things like that. And you know, for me, one of the things that is really standing out is I talk to a lot of these people and they they feel frustrated because what they're trying to do is they're trying to we're trying to mask and cover and quote unquote fix, you know, these components to bring everybody more into line with what we think is is normal. Um and on the surface, I think everybody agrees that we should support people in being whoever they are, but what does that mean if you have what we could call a limitation in some area that keeps you from going beyond a certain point in something that you want to do or you want to experience? Um do we ask of ourselves to accept this is my limit? This is what I am capable of. Um, you know, like I I sort of make a parallel with the physical world in the sense of like people who are amputees. Um and it's like you can modify, you can learn to do a lot of the same things, but no matter how much you want, no matter how much you put in the effort and the focus, you will never, ever, ever grow that limb back.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah. That original limb is gone. Um, and I think that acceptance of, okay, now what? But this is who I have to be. I have to be a one-footed person. Now I can turn that into whatever I want to turn it into, but this is what I am. But then flipping that over and then and going, okay, what does that mean for our minds? Like, are our minds any different? Like, are there certain wirings in our brains, or certain configurations like um that preclude us from being able to think or do things in particular ways? And is that bad? Or is it just that we have to learn what we do have and then find the best fit for it, you know? And so this idea that maybe we maybe there is a limit to the things that we can be, and we have to be a certain way because that's who we are. Sure. Um, I don't know an answer to that, but I think there's a lot of people who are just like quite ready, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Yeah, I could see that. I I I think I follow you there, and I think I'm with you on that. I, you know, my take on that is I, you know, the question, can we be who we want or who we are, or do we have to be who we are? Um I think the answer is yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Right. It's a little bit of both.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

It's always a little bit of both, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I think at to your point, at that's at the end, you know, at some point there is a there's a max output, right? There's this is where I'm I'm stuck. I can't, you know. I mean, I can only buy so many things because at some point my bank account depletes to zero. You know, I'm I'm not a millionaire, right? So there's all these things, you know. So yeah, I I I I'm with you that and I can see where people would bristle about that because it's all this toxic positivity in the world where just have a great mindset. I'm like, you know what? No, sometimes things just suck and life is can be shit. And so I don't think that just having a great mindset is, you know, the great mindset should be it sucks, but I can get through it. Um, but you know, just you know, everything's happy clappy, you know, and high five your buddy. I just I can't get get behind that nonsense. It's a further.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Well, and it's that it's that that adage that I think we've we've taken it too far that like when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Yeah. But I think sometimes people are, well, when life gives you lemons, you know, make apple juice. And you're like, I can't.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah. I have lemon. Yeah, right. You know, like specific juice, specifically. All juices are not available to me. Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah, fair enough. Okay. Um, all right. So uh are you a are you a spontaneous person or a planner?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Um okay, so this is an interesting uh take on my uh personal philosophy in life. And I I love analogies, so bear with me as I make more analogies. Um I think that you know, if we look at life as a river, if you've ever been canoeing, you know that if you just try to canoe in a straight line down the middle of the river, you're probably gonna dump because there's gonna be a rock, there's gonna be, you know, uh log in there, there's gonna be currents. Who knows what you're gonna run into? You can either fight it or you can allow yourself to flow. But what I do get to do is I do get to pick which river I put my canoe in. Um so for myself, I'm more of like a macro planner and a micro spin, like spontaneous person. So I like to sort of set a course, but inside of that course, who knows what's gonna happen day to day. It could just be all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

I like that. That's a very, that's a very succinct way to put that. I I like that. That's uh I'm to steal that. I kind of live in that same world where like I want to plan things, but I plan it very loosely, right? Exactly. That way I got some adaptability. So cool. All right. Um what advice would you give your former well, you said you don't really have a former boss.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Well, I have I have worked for people. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

So for a former any former boss or maybe one that had the most impact on you, what what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_01 46:04

In the in the in the sense of uh why they're my former boss. Sure. Um you know, I don't I don't think that's uh I've been very fortunate, I think, to have worked for people who have been very empowering, um, have created a lot of opportunities, you know, for me to pursue things. I mean, I guess if I was giving advice just because there was there was a lot of you know not wanting to see me leave when I left. Um I I don't think any of my bosses really need advice. They're all very successful in their own. Um, you know, but but to the in that in that question is just that that knowledge that that change is inevitable, right? And that like people are gonna come and go. And you know, I have to tell that to myself even. It's like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how good things are, sometimes it it's just the nature of life just changes, you know. So for sure.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

It's just the only was it the only constant is change. Right, exactly. All right, last question. What uh it's a good one to wrap up with. What movie can you watch over and over again?

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Um okay, so well, probably too many of them. Uh I probably shouldn't admit uh how many I've watched over and over again. So I uh you probably just want an easy answer, right? Why can't I just give you an easy answer? Um I I will say maybe the answer to that question is which one have I watched over and over again? And uh it I would have to say it's not even the whole movie. Um I have definitely watched uh the the first half of the Fellowship of the Ring, probably way more than I want to admit to. Um I can get behind that. But I will admit that it might be 150. Wow, nice. Uh but it's because it was a coping mechanism for a hot minute. It was it was an end of the day, just have to turn something on, you know. Um and and to kind of like throw into all of this. Really, what it was is at the very, very beginning, they got Bilbo, he's writing in this book, right? And he's talking about Hobbits and Hobbit's place in the world, and that the world's really big, and they live kind of a you know, a lot more modest and closed off life and stuff. And at the very, very end, uh, he says it's it's no bad thing to celebrate a simple life. And you that really kind of resonated with me, you know, and and those those movies as a whole about grand purpose and whether or not you even want it, you know, and sometimes it's given to you. And is there anything wrong with with celebrating simplicity? You know, and so like it just became this this sort of mantra movie for me, and it was a going to bed movie, actually, because sure uh, like I mentioned, my wife passing away and she was dealing with cancer and chemo, and it kind of just became this like distraction from sure pain and stuff like that, and you just turn it on, you know, whatever. So I love it. I was just I still it's one of those things where I'm like, okay, I must really like this movie because I've watched it that many times and I don't hate it. So I must love it.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Oh yeah. Well, how can you not love the those the the Lord of the Rings movies? Now, one when they kicked out Hobbit and the quest for more money, it was garbage. But the uh yeah, the original man, Peter Jackson killed it. Well, I waited for my entire life for those movies. So I I'm with you. I've I don't know that I've seen them 150 times, but I've seen them a few. I've seen them a few. My my my typical repeat is uh I hate to admit this, but I'm going to. It's dumb and dumber. I can watch it. Fantastic. I can just watch it. I can watch it and then start it over and watch it again and still laugh hysterically through the whole thing. Uh yeah, I'm uh uh, you know, I think I watch a lot of things like that where I'm just like turn it on because I just need something to shrimp my brain off. And there's so many shows that I've done that with where I'm like, I don't even remember watching it, you know. So have you seen that? I'm like, I think so. They started telling me like that that sounds familiar. I don't know, it's just in the background. Yeah, so I've I had it on. So all right. Um, well, final thoughts. Anything you want to anything else?

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Close, close it up or uh no, I I mean I hope I hope I brought something useful to the table and things to think about, and um, and and I'd I'm excited to to hear more of your episodes. Yeah. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Well I appreciate your time, Dustin.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Been a good one. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please share it with anyone you think might also enjoy it. And if you'd like the show, please consider supporting it. It's the support of listeners like you that keeps us going. If you'd like to help, there's a link in the show notes. I'd like to thank all of our guests who've taken the time to have these conversations and share their insights on failures, both personal and professional. If you want to follow the show, the website is www.points of failure.com. And you can find us on Facebook and Instagram as failurepointspod and on Twitter as failure points. Please like and share. And remember to rate and review the show on whichever podcast platform you use. The ratings and reviews really help and keep us going. If you'd like to contact us directly with questions or get us suggestions, you can email us at failurepointpod at gmail.com. Again, thank you for listening. We'll see you next time on points of failure.