S2E14 - I Won't Starve

On this episode, we talk to J Haleem Washington, author, business coach, and corporate trainer. He went from working for $8.00 an hour at the Hampton Inn to earning 6 figures as a Commercial Photographer in just a few years. He accomplished all this while being a convicted felon. While working for $8.00 an hour he developed his mantra #IWon’tStarve, which was the catalyst for him to leave his job after only one year. Over his career, he’s been able to work with Nike, the Save The Children Foundation, NFL, Amtrak, and The WNBA.

 He's since been pardoned and is now a best-selling author and motivational speaker. 

 The platform he created, #IWontStarve, catalyzed his business growth, and he uses the #IWon’tStarve message to encourage and motivate students, entrepreneurs, and career-oriented individuals. His goal is to inspire you to build a platform to ensure that U Won’t Starve.

 We discuss drive, personal impact, and not having a plan b.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Coming up on points of failure.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

You know, I bought the smallest house because I understood what it was two years prior. We had a venture loads on the door. And I'm an entrepreneur. This can go up, this can go down. I need to have something that I know is going to be high regardless of where we're up or down. You can have a smaller house, you can be on the street. You know, I take the risk on the building, not on the risk on where we live.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to the point of failure, the point of failure with it. I hope you enjoyed this episode. So really, I'll just uh let's just dig in. First, before I get too far into that, why don't you just give us a quick rundown of your background where you started? Oh, there it is. Perfect. Let's plug that. And I will uh I'll put a link in the show notes as well for the book.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

So no problem. We want to make sure you get a copy as well. So um I'll have her send you a digital copy um to your email so she can have it. But yeah, um, me born and raised in North New Jersey, um, far away from home now, but born and raised in North New Jersey during, I like to say nowadays, during the crack era, because they're putting it on TV and feels crazy watching things that you know they showing Ronald Reagan and stuff like that, being the president and George Bush senior. And I just remember being in school as a kid in those times and this say no to drug campaigns and all that other stuff. So um, yeah, we we grew up in a heart of that right outside of New York City, and um my family was heavily affected by it. You know, my grandmother had eight children, seven of them were strung out on drugs. Um, the only one that wasn't is one that got away. My uncle graduated from high school the same year I was born. He left and never came back, went to the military. Everybody else was that you know was um bit by that bug. And um, I was affected negatively because being the first grandchild, and my grandmother had to take full custody of me, and she took full custody of 10 of her 21 grandchildren. Wow, you know, so raising her eight and then 10 of us, she let me know in advance I wasn't gonna have much, you know. I just had a place to stay. And if I wasn't trying to be an overachiever, like I was playing basketball, I'll have something to eat. But a lot of days that wasn't the case because you know, I would stay after school for basketball practice, basketball games, come home, vegetables are there, but no pork chops, no fried chicken, certain stuff because it's all gone. So 15 people in a three-bedroom apartment, a glorified three-bedroom apartment. It just didn't work out that way. So, you know, I turned to the streets, still was a good kid, but you know, I went to school every day, love school, but at nighttime, you know, I did what I felt like I needed to do to get money, and put up to me when about a time, you know, I went to Juvie a couple times, just in and out. I got arrested my senior year of high school as soon as I became 18. And that's when I'm my first scare with the law because um, you know, I I was really potentially facing some time. But you know, they give you that smack on the wrist, your first offense as an adult. And I had some college situation going on. I had all the stuff. I told you I was a good student, so they was able to get me that slap on the wrist, but it didn't help me none because I went to college and I became a felon my first year in college. So I spent my pretty much my college career fighting, um facing 10 years in prison. Again, graduated on the dean's list, but instead of going away to prison, I had five years probation, but I couldn't get a job. So you sitting there with $60,000 of school debt and A's and B's on your on your you know transcript, but you can't get a job to pay it back. So entrepreneurship was was the thing for me, you know, at that time. Fair enough. I just you know say, hey, let me let me do this thing. And it was hard because it wasn't as popular as it is now. You know, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur now. Um, we were the crazy people back in those days. You know, we were the ones that, you know, oh man, what are you talking about? You better get a job. I need a paycheck. I want my paycheck. You know, now I'm like, y'all crazy. Y'all literally, I'm running people back to the job. Like, go to the work, please. This is not if you're not fit for this, you know, if you didn't go through boot camp, you're not um, you're not equipped for this. So, you know, again, I did that for a while, so I didn't get in my footing. But you know, this country we live in, we love um around Obama years, we went through the Great Recession, and we were my wife and I were affected by that heavily. My wife worked on Capitol Hill, so she she lost her job, six-figure job, and um, I was running a business, so I sold that business to make sure that we didn't go under our condo was worth $75,000 or less than what it was years before, and it was all types of stuff that went on. So we moved south. I went to college in South Carolina. Um, we went back to the South Carolina because we were in the DC area, wanted something less expensive, started having children. And um, I had already picked up a camera because my daughter, when my daughter was born, I picked up a camera, wanted to take photos and stuff for her. And um, I had this $2,000 camera that I sold because I was I need some money, so to my then pastor. But he said, Um, I want you to have it. And he gave it back to me a couple weeks later and told me I can keep the money. And I took photography very seriously at that time and became an amazing photographer. Um, I didn't ever think I could, but um, one of the things I was doing very successfully is working with the government and um doing work with the government with my camera, then expanding my company from just being a regular photographer to being a full-time media company and having four or five different cameras at a time, doing major events. Um, I started learning about government contracting, and I was able to partner with my local and and um county government to help other minorities get um certified and do business with the government. So that's when I um created my my mantra, I won't starve, came after I left my job. I took an eight dollar hour job when I went back to South Carolina, but it was just a mantra. But the company I won't starve LLC was created at that point um to help be a consultant and help individuals like myself get into a space where they can do government contracting work. And then um, you know, I speak. I started speaking at that time, and I was having these workshops and conferences, and everybody said, If you're a speaker, you need a book. I'm like, I don't want to write no book. And so finally they they they went out and I wrote my first book, I won't starve, from 8,000 six figures. Because I um, like I said, I went down there, that's when I became a felon. So I had to take an eight dollar an hour job, and um, I left that job and became a six-figure photographer by 2017. That was 2013 when I took that job by 20. When I left the job in 2014, and by 2017, I was a six-figure earner as a photographer, and you know, just kept going from that point. And by the time the pandemic got here, I was already going around teaching and training, but couldn't do it when we locked us down. So I created U Own Star Key Principles of Entrepreneurial Development, which is pretty much what I'm my training, my Honorable Star of Entrepreneur Development workshop in book form, but we you know tightened it up a little bit, made it a little bit more specific. And then I got bit by the bug after that. So I wrote another book, more motivation and inspiration. Um, we needed it during COVID, we needed some definite definite motivation. I was doing videos, but I didn't know how long I was gonna be able to do it. So, off of that inspiration, I just wrote a book. The videos was called Morning Motivation, so I made it um into a book. But morning motivation, consistent encouragement through a crisis, and the gist of it is that COVID was a crisis and is a crisis, but it wasn't our first. And I said it damn sure is not gonna be our last. So we had to figure out how we're gonna stay consistently encouraged no matter what the crisis is. And here we are now. How you got how you guys got to know me with this book right here, Business Corner, my best work. I I think um was it's what's really needed to survive the entrepreneurial fight. And again, a lot of people are making this thing called entrepreneurship look like it's just the easiest thing in the world, and it's not not by a long shot. It is a fight, it is a lifestyle, it is a commitment, it is something that you just can't put down at five o'clock and pick back up at eight o'clock in the morning. You know, you live it, and I have for 20 years. And business corner is what I feel, you know, you need people in your corner, and not just when you start, but for all um facets of your business life and the business cycle. So that's what we did in this book. We started from the inception of the idea all the way to selling the company, you know. So we caught everything in between, you're talking about higher when you're hiring employees, when you're talking about investing in the company, reinvesting in the company, relocating with your company, selling the company, everything, any part of this business journey, you need sometimes the same people or different people in your corner. And people don't realize that because everybody's talking, preaching solopreneurship, you know, but you can't do this alone. I don't know, no major company that was that's where it is by itself.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

No, not at all. And to your point, I I think that the uh the Instagram influencers and the social media people really make it the they make it a challenge for folks like yourself that are you know that out there like, no, I I I did the grind, I you know, I I buried myself in it, and you don't get to just wake up one day and become a millionaire, you know?

SPEAKER_01 10:15

It's a lie, and they'll but they're selling people. And I literally engaged someone yesterday, they have a program they're trying to teach people how to be um sports agents, and so they talked about the top 10 sports agents, these are people making a hundred million dollars a year. And I I said, Can we kindly talk about the individuals who are just trying to pay their bills doing this? And he didn't want to have a conversation about it.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

He said, But ESPN only gonna show you the highlights. I'm saying, well, you're not ESPN, you know, but you're selling a program that's gonna get people to pay to be a part of your program, but you can't guarantee you're not making a hundred million dollars. And I'm not the person who judged that, like, because that's a lottery ticket. It's a lot of people, it's not a black, white, purple thing. Everybody's not gonna make a hundred million dollars. I think it's viable if you can be successful. What's successful? Can you pay your bills? Can you make sure your kids are straight, taken care of, put money to the side, all that other stuff by doing that career? Show people how to do that, but that's too much like right. No, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, ESPN, they cater to the to the folks that you know, to like people like me. Like, I'm not out there, you know, recruiting talent. So I don't only care about the highlight reels. I'm not the guy that cares about what that guy does when he's not out there making the touchdowns or the you know, the dunks and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Exactly, exactly. But no, needless to say that conversation was a short one.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I can imagine. So in in this book, the the uh business corner, um, the that you dedicated it to your to your uncle uh Latif. Uh, tell me a little about that because that that seemed to be, I mean, it was very clearly very important to you to to establish that dedication. So tell me a little bit about your uncle.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Oh my god, he was an amazing guy, man. You know, he wasn't a blood relative, he was my aunt's husband. Um, but he was the only one. He died during COVID. He died in October 2020, and it broke my heart because I didn't give him his flowers at the time or before the time. We always had a strong relationship. And um, you know, all my other I told you about my grandmother's biological children. So him coming in, he was one of those individuals who I was, you know, when I had that three-bedroom with all the people in there, I can go to his house as a teenager and have a girlfriend over, you know, because when we have no girlfriend over at nobody else's house, he was the one who, you know, um, I I you know I had a place to sleep without fighting over a place to sleep at his house. I always had a place to eat. First person gave me key to their house, you know. Um, first person I saw with an alarm in their with in their apartment and uh washing machine, like I was able to get my phone calls over there. Um, he just always was my cheerleader, you know. He always cheered me on. And all those times I talked about being in the mix because he came from that. He when I when we met, he came into my life, he was just coming out of prison, you know, like 1989, 90. And um, you know, he met my aunt and they married, and you know, that that's blood couldn't make him no better of an uncle to me, you know. But um, I just was doing my thing and he never judged. He always gave me a safe place, safe haven, never said, Hey, you can't be at the house, none of that. It was just I was always open to him, you know. Um, when I moved away, he would be one of the only ones that would come and visit. You know, he he was just into that. He was always my cheerleader no matter what happened um with me. And so um I spent my time, you know, definitely keeping his name alive. So that's why he he made that portion of the book. Actually, created a line. I have my um Jay Haleen clothing brand, but I have a line called the Larry Boy line because his government name is Larry. And so now um I've created a wolf, like a cartoon character, and it's called Larry. His name is Larry Boy, but it's called uh after my uncle. So he was probably the strongest role model um that I had in my life. And I wish I would have given him even more flowers when he was here.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

You mentioned that you know, being uh the point of the book is to teach people to how important it is to be supportive and not judgmental. Talk a little bit about that because I think that's uh you know, for myself, I I you know I know that people in my own life have been, you know, some I've been I'm pretty fortunate. I'm surrounded by pretty supportive people, not too many people, you know, based on my ideas, but you know, sometimes you get that. So yeah, talk a little about that, your experiences with that.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Man, that's been a good portion of my life, especially when I've decided to become an entrepreneur in college. You know, I had the glow, I call it now. If you saw uh Leroy, Bruce Leroy, I had the glow in college, you know. I I was doing stuff I didn't have no business doing, but I would take my money and do things I was. So me and a good friend of mine invested in a restaurant when we were young. I used to drive back from South Carolina to New York and go get clothes and bags and stuff to sell. Like, so people, if you paid attention to me, you knew I had it in me. But they wasn't, it was always negative talk around that, you know. Oh man, you just should focus on getting a job, all this other stuff like that. You know, then when I got married, my in-laws extremely negative, extremely judgmental, going into the church, extremely negative, extremely judgmental. It was just always that around me. So, you know, that's where I won't starve came at because when I left my job for the first for the last time in 2014, at first it was being perfectly honest, it was a middle finger to everybody saying, you know, I won't starve, I'm gonna prove it to you. And I would put it on Instagram or Facebook whenever I got like a nice job, a big um contract or something like that. But I started helping other people. People would send me messages and say, Man, I really like that. That's inspiring and everything. And so it made me soften my heart, you know, towards it and make it into something more inspirational, as opposed to me saying, But I was like, because I'm a good kid, no matter what I did, because everything I did was to get money. I you know, I had nothing on my rap sheet to hurt nobody or nothing like that. I just didn't have any other influences, you know. Even my best influence was coming out of prison, you know, my uncle, right? But he worked the whole time when he got out, he never went back to prison before he passed. But it's just a point, like I was around it so much. And so once I came and got access to different things, I started doing different things, but it takes time. You can't say eat crappy for 10 years and thinking two months you're gonna be back, you know what I'm saying? You gotta start putting some time in. So I got caught up, and nobody leaves the game with no scars. So I take that, but I was always a good kid, and nobody had no integrity issues with me. I didn't, you know, I talked about my in-laws, I never put my hands on my wife or did anything like that. It was just, you know, I wasn't doing what you thought I was supposed to be doing, or I wasn't at a level at 19, 20 something years old where you thought I was at. And it was always a judgmental scenario from that space. So I just so fed up with it at that time. I just was like, man, I won't starve. And um, that was for me. That's why that I is there. Once I got healed, that's when the you was able to come in in. But I couldn't focus on nobody else but but me at this time. And I made sure that I was in a position, that I had skill sets, you know, and and um I've already invested in myself enough that no matter where I go on this earth, I'll be fine and I wouldn't starve. But you know, being judged, the judgmental piece is is is crucial, and that's what the corner portion is because you know, you got Bob put a boxing ring in there, man. You know what I mean? These boxes are getting pummeled, and they got somebody on their thing still telling them that they can make it, they can do it, they can get through it, you know, and that's what's needed. Coaches, you know, management, anybody who can behind you, your spouse, you know, family members. That's the only way you're gonna get through this fight, you know, alive, because people are literally dying to be entrepreneurs, you know. And if they're not successful, they're turning to drugs, they're killing themselves, you know, alcoholism, stuff like that. Nobody's talking about that. Everybody's saying that, hey, go do this, leave the job, leave the job. They got the um, I can't think of the name of it now, but we just had a great uh resignation, but now everybody's running back to work, you know. Yeah, so um with all that going on, like because then nobody's telling them the truth. Like, you got to go through boot camp to be a full successful entrepreneur. Now, everybody can be a soldier if they go through boot camp, everybody can be an entrepreneur if you go through boot camp because you got to be trained for this. It is not what they're telling you on Instagram, you know, it's a different ball game. And um, you know, they're just they're just lying. And you, but you need support in order to do it.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Absolutely. And I I think it's key, you know, something that you you mentioned. It's important to to really look at yourself and work on yourself and to know a, you know, and you know, I don't literally like the term brutal honesty. I don't know why honesty needs to be brutal, but you know, just being honest with yourself and just yeah, just saying, hey, look, you know, I've I gotta look at this and say, am I really, you know, you you get fired from a job or something. And a lot of people, you know, we we naturally want to go, oh, well, that's because my manager was a jerk or my coworkers or whatever. But if you want to take something out of that so that you don't get fired again, you have to think about, okay, where is the truth in what I'm being told? Like, you know, maybe it's mostly fluff, but there's got to be something I can take from that. And, you know, I think it's key because, you know, you mentioned that you drove 11 and a half hours, you know, one way to buy a dozen t-shirts for what, a buck sixty a piece and then turn out and sell them for five bucks. And I just don't think that I think the vast majority of people don't look at situations like, how can I, how can I make this benefit me? You know, without it being self-centered, but how do I profit from this in a way that gets me forward? And I think a lot of people, man, I could drive 11 and a half hours to buy 12 shirts just to sell them again.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

It was more than that. It was by it was by the I bought them by the dozen, but yeah, I would, but I would be home anyway. If I'm coming to visit Jersey, I cross the bridge, you know. You know about the area of North is but literally 15 minutes over the bridge or you know, on a train, you're back you in the city, and I will always get something to bring back, you know. Like I will always jackets or bags, or you know, like they had to, like I said, it's $12. I mean they're on 12 shirts for $20. But I would probably spend $100 on it, come back with like five dozen. But I'm a college kid. So by the time I spent about three, four, five hundred dollars on merchandise, now I'm making money. But you, if you're paying attention to me, you will see this kid got something. Let me even invest in time or energy by telling him, hey, you're you're good, you you should do this, you should do that. I remember someone telling me who I respected a lot. Um, I was going through my case, and she actually helped me because I won't say what she did because that put her in trouble, but um, you know, I had to spend a bunch of money, but I would I would literally give her money to help me out with. But anyway, we she went get into real estate afterwards from years later. She said, I really wish you had that, some of that money that you had when you were in the street. I said, You were just the one telling me I shouldn't be in the street. You know what I'm saying? Like then, you know, when I wanted to go to church and said, Oh, everybody tell me go to church and become saved and do all this other stuff. Y'all gave me more hell. I'm like, I never got no hell when I didn't need any money from y'all. You know what I'm saying? When I needed to help now, all the judgment, y'all. You you know, you can't just get some kind of job. I told y'all what I'm doing. By the way, I just got partnered in 2021, but this is um 2003 to 2021. It's 18 years, literally to the day. June 4th, 2003. June 4th, 2021 is when I got part. So I did with that for 18 years straight. You know what I'm saying? Um, and I thought it was over. I remember applying for a job in 2012 and got the job, got hired in Laurel, Maryland, and they said, and then a couple weeks later, my background check, they still said no. They said no, we got to resend it. So it was horrible. And still having a judgment, knowing what I'm going through. It's that's an epidemic in this country, you know. Um, and the people around me just was not supportive. You know, it just wasn't the case. So I understand it firsthand, and I so I recognize it. So it's probably that's how this made into this book because once I started getting certain types of support, my career catapulted.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Um, you talk about you know, the success or failure of the business.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

uh defining you know the the entrepreneur and i you know i think that's very human you know the the oh man i'm defining myself by whether or not you know because you you know what people say hey you know introduce yourself well i'm steve and i i do x job but is that who you are and so i think that we naturally want to define ourselves by what we accomplish or what we do um so talk about you know how how do you as an entrepreneur how do you make that a positive definition where even if the business you start a business and it falls apart it flops how do you make that a positive definition of who you are as opposed to say I'm a failure well I and that's a great question people have to understand that they're telling us lies and telling us that we're entrepreneurs when a lot of them is just self-employed because if you're an entrepreneur you didn't fail the business fail you know and you're it's easy to move on to the next business you know every idea is not going to be successful you know and it's not that it's a bad idea we have to learn and grow in entrepreneurship that maybe we're the one for the idea but we're not the one to take it to fruition we're not the one to take it all the way you can take it the 40 yard line but you're not the one to take it to the touchdown that grows in education that grows in taking those losses you know and taking those risks but everybody is self-employed so the business is attached to you you know what you can do and um a business is like a child yes that child is your child but they're growing up and developing their own life and at some point yeah we feel like we're failures if our kids act like assholes but at the end of the day it's still their life you know I mean and you your job is to put what you're supposed to put in it and then also put the right people around them the best as you possibly can for them to grow and and be who they need to be but we are taught that the business is us nowadays you know and so we're not really entrepreneurs we're self-employed if you're not around the business doesn't do anything so the business can't have an identity outside of you you know um and that's what that's what the difference is so once people learn that the business is just that is a business then you you are still an entrepreneur it don't matter if it failed or not I'm an entrepreneur you know I'm a serial entrepreneur if you have five businesses you know I'm saying but all of them are not going to be profitable and sometimes it's not because you're a bad businessman I don't think of bad business people who dealing with the trains that went over Ohio two times in one month like everybody get their day you know what I'm saying the people got Southwest didn't put that in the plan last year for everything that happened at the end of um 2022 you know like they didn't make them bad business people but they're not walking around with their heads held low saying that they're bad entrepreneurs or they're not entrepreneurs the the business South Press Enterprises or whatever the LLC or whatever they are is having a bad day or it's bad. So we just got to teach entrepreneurship properly it's not about you. It's the most selfless thing you can do. And as long as we start thinking about entrepreneurship the right way as something that we're creating not what we could do for ourselves selfishly then we won't have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah tell me a little about that you you said that it's a it's a selfless thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

I think a lot of people might you know that may seem counterintuitive in a way tell me what you uh what you mean by that oh man it's it's perfect because think about it you know you're not moving with you and your children to a place where it's not businesses aren't thriving. So businesses tell you what's going on in your neighborhood. Businesses are created to make a great neighborhood you know so when you move there and somebody that wasn't um steadfast enough to create a grocery store a hospital people don't look at these as a business but hospital is a business put a hospital close by your home uh dry cleaners you know any of the things that you need to live a good life you know when they're saying it's a food desert it's not good entrepreneurs around here you know because they would know that if they put a grocery store here you know that entrepreneurials because that obviously that it's not for them everybody starting businesses how can they immediately get it but when you solve a problem that's how you make millions of dollars you know so that's why it's selfless because you business is about solving problems and more likely not your problem. If you do solve your problem the only way to make millions of dollars you're not paying yourself millions is to solve that same problem for other people. So I figured out as a photographer for me not to be just a photographer I started working with the government that was a big deal the checks changed. So I realized that if I learn how to do it, I'm gonna help other people learn how to do it. You know, and then that's a real problem still to this day. I live in Las Vegas now I do speaking engagements and trainings in California. I came from Little South Carolina their life is still the same thing. Oh the minority business owners only get X amount of the billions of dollars that come to Long Beach port or the city of Los Angeles and I'm like well they were going through this in South Carolina with only 1500 people in the city I was at LA got four million going through the same problems. There's a lot of problems to solve so because I'm in a certain in a unique space and have that information I won't starve I'll be able to go by helping other individuals not by me because I'm not paying for it. So that's the true essence of business is you solving problems being selfless creating an idea that helps other individuals it's what creates your money. Yeah you uh you mentioned you you've mentioned a couple times in in the book you talk about you know the being told what you can't do what you should do and those kinds of things do you think the the negative external talk I'll call it negative but um do you think that that motivated you or do you think it maybe hindered you slightly in the beginning in the beginning it definitely hindered me because again we didn't have social media but you know I didn't we didn't have youtube didn't come out like oh six oh seven so you didn't have what you call pseudo mentors who you know I would have never known um I say never but I didn't know about a lot of the motivational speakers I only know them because of YouTube. You know so when people was saying things that was going to motivate me and be positive I I'm like oh perfect then you know I started reading books and um now you got audible things like that. Things wasn't created back then and it was definitely a community of the baby boom was raised us you know and um they they're totally taken advantage of like they just told them go work Social Security would be there for them everything like they were lied to all the way up and down you know and so they were just passing the lies off to us. You know and so now once information came readily available to me I was able to get motivation from other places. I wasn't getting it from locally and I love my wife she but she she didn't know she was raising the fam work and she you know again she had a nice job on Capitol Hill and she's the one she had better grades than me master's degree she's in accounting that's that's her let me count some numbers let me do that. So she's not thinking about that she's supportive from a perspective of I'm not gonna tell you not to do it. Go ahead rah rah rah I don't know about no business you know bring me the numbers I can look at that but everybody else was very negative until I started listening to those people started reading started you know being around certain individuals and then I had a gentleman two gentlemen um that I always mentioned one guy from the city of um Columbia South Carolina where I lived at at the time and Angelo McBride he's since retired he saw me working with the mayor there um we had a uh flood a thousand year flood in 2015 and I met him and he was saying hey man you know I can I can help you and I you know I was like okay and they had a fun um an event that they well a class accelerator that they did he asked me to join the accelerator and he gave me a couple of little small jobs to test me out see what I can do but he was the person who opened up the door for me to um do government contracting he taught me how to go certain get certifications and things like that and I listened to everything he told me to do then as another gentleman ironically I think this is a big deal for people to know was a Caucasian individual his name is um Tom Leb better one of my greatest business friends you know and just friend uh all over now man Tom told me to tell my story about me being a felon because I kept my mouth shut I I've worked with Nike WNBA NFL you know Amtrak the military save the children foundation I worked with all these programs nobody's ever background checked me only things um save the children foundation was checking about um if you did something with kids because that's what they do but if I would apply for a job in any of these places I would have never got it but because I was a business owner and I was a contractor I didn't they never asked for my um my background not one time but it's I because I kept my mouth shut and I kept my head down I'm like made this money take care of my family but he encouraged me to tell my story. And when I did he supported me all the way and because he supported me it made it very easy for me to go in rooms that I wouldn't have ever been able to have a chance to go into so you know especially in the deep south you know so it was a good look. So I always give them their um their props.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah um you you talk about uh freedom over finance and I'm I'm curious you know what what you mean exactly by that you know because you obviously you know people I know even for me when I was younger in my 20s I thought man I'm gonna start a business so I don't have to work so much I can just make money because I'd never started a business and so I didn't realize you're never gonna stop working. You know so uh you know so when you say that the freedom I think mentality piece is oh I don't have to go to work nine to five every day um but I don't think that's what you're talking about. I maybe I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

No not it not even it's just entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is the freedom you know it gives you the opportunity to do the things that people say that they can't do but it's it's just not true. It's just are you willing to go through the process so my freedom journey was look like this yes I left my job you know crappy job that it was I mean I like the actual job but the pay was crappy and um you know but I never miss a school function even to this day with my children. You know I I'm always around my family I'm with everything my birthdays they're coming with me. My wife usually says hey on her birthday she wanna go do her own thing. Every birthday of mine is a family uh affair maybe I might have a double situation where I do the family then I go do something else but it has to be that I've never missed anything with them. The money came it didn't come immediately but it came and I believe that if you have a good business model and you do what you're doing the money will come. But are you choosing freedom? You know we created entrepreneurship as a lifestyle and it's not just for me it's for my whole family my kids my daughter is a two-time author and she has her own nonprofit and she's only 14 years old. This is what's going on because of me having the time to be around her and she's looking at me write books she's looking at me run comp run a company and so when she has something that's a that's an avenue she came to me and said hey I saw a friend of mine being bullied I stepped in we're trying to help um trying to help her we're trying to start something school yeah go ahead do it we support it. Oh the school's moving slow well I have a 3000 square foot office building use one of my spaces to have meetings with your little friends we'll bring some food for them you do that now we're gonna go ahead and get your 501c3 started okay fine we have your meetings boom here come covert you can't have meetings no more well you know say hey what about a book great we help you get a book we're gonna publish it we're gonna do that next thing you know a year later she's talking to over 600 kids in the school district doing speaking engagements selling hundreds of books at a time that's awesome this is what's created that's the freedom portion created the finances later you know and it's still here now we live way better than we lived in those times but it was okay it was a time where we got the smallest house on the block but I got a 3000 square foot building because I understood the freedom was giving me was me making that investment. Buying five and five more cameras gave me freedom to go from doing a thousand dollar job to ten thousand dollar job you know it gave me freedom for me to be able to work on my business and not in my business you know these things it's always the freedom of the finance I could have kept the money I put also in the book about when you make that reinvestment that reinvestment creates freedom you know people want that come from somewhere else you got to take that risk it's not just when you start even down the line because it's tough if you tell your wife she can't get a Louis Vuitton bag for the next three years you know and she ain't got she's not going on the trips no more with her friends because you're in this business and then now you got 40 50 thousand dollars in the in the black and she want to go on a vacation you say no baby I'm gonna put it all back into the business you know you're risking a lot you know but that's as a level of freedom that we experienced and we really saw it when the pandemic happened because we're sitting in this office space people are still renting trying to rent the space because they needed space to do things we we've done virtual camps people rented our space for virtual camps and they had people teaching stuff in each room and people doing it online. We did a a whole um what you call it a um a the a learning pie a virtual learning pie because people didn't want to bring their kids back to school so we had one nice size conference room with middle schools one nice size conference room with elementary students so over 13 kids in there and people paying us every week to have their kids come near like daycare because they wanted a safe space. Then we partnered with the school district to be able to bring food there and we had people to come to take care of kids that had IEPs so they were able to come and work with the kids in a safe healthy space so they can go into one of our office spaces and meet with their student and they don't have to go to the school where there was multiple people. So we created a level of freedom by one putting the finances on the back burner in the beginning don't worry about the job don't worry about any of that stuff and create the avenue so I I knew what I wanted to do I wanted to have time with my kids I said I wanted to go ahead and work during their hours not after hours so I wanted to be a corporate photographer. So it took some time it don't happen overnight but once I figured it out we went so after law firm you know um I did my research we had 400 law firms in the little town that have 1500 people in it but University of South Carolina has a huge law school and you know it's a bad drive in town you know um state so I I I went out got brochures and I targeted who I wanted to work with and I got to working with the the law firms and then it went to from the law firms to the government but everybody works within nine to five so I was always able to get my kids from school drop my kids off the school and do everything. So I created that atmosphere the finances came later. Yeah so uh real quick let's uh let's give your daughter some props what uh you want to plug that 501c3 what's her nonprofit oh yeah anti-bullying club my daughter Sydney Joe Washington um you call it ABC for short and she has two books out right now and she's finishing up the third one the first one Malaysia's big move and um Malaysia's big creation so um Malaysia's her alter ego we call it it's a young lady who um of course um inspired by where I'm from that was from New York that moved to the south and she had a big personality and she came to the school and she found out that her friends the new friends that she met in the south was being bullied and so she was helping them out. The next one was the big creation where she actually created the ABC the anti-bullying club and you know they were that was their job like sort of to go out and um prevent bullying in in the schools and things of that nature so this next one's coming out as um Malaysia's big promotion because Malaysia will be going to high school uh like my daughter just went to high school so they'll be talking about Malaysia freshman year high school very cool that's all I mean that's that's that's really impressive you've clearly rubbed off on her I mean that's that's pretty 14 years old I was not thinking about starting businesses I can tell you that's all they think about now both my nine year olds in the same way we started collaborated started a basketball business for him called Prime Ballers he's a big time basketball star. I'm not one of those guys who are psyched about NBA and putting that type of pressure on your kid but I did tell him if you love basketball want to create something that you can always do it. So we've grabbed gravitated started kids that's younger than him. So he already has the opportunity to train kids that's younger than him. So we got the six year old seven year olds he's nine and a half but he plays on 11 year old team so he's able to coach and train and doing that with them. So I want him to do that through the rest of his years. And then um if he don't make it to the NBA like he said he won, you know he's only nine he might say he wants to do something else in a couple years. But he's gonna always love basketball. I play basketball as I mentioned earlier I always love it. So it's something him and I do together at least four days a week um we're working with kids or working with him um because again I still have the freedom I have the time um I still work during the time that they're in school and when they're done I mean I still have some things to do and I'm doing stuff behind the scenes but nothing takes precedence over my children.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

That's good. That's important.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

That's uh my uh well my stepdad my my biological dad bounced uh when I was pretty young but my my stepdad I call him dad because he's the one that stepped in he's got a hell of a work ethic I mean the guy just he you know sun up to sun down busting his butt keeping he you know started a landscape design company and whatnot and I I spent 20 years doing landscape construction leading those jobs and whatnot he really showed me that work ethic but I think that what he didn't show me was what you're talking about and that balance that that I don't like to say work life balance it feels very corporate and fuzzy but you know that that he didn't show me that how do you balance that like I've got this business that takes care of my family but I have to be present for my family as well and you know I you know I didn't I didn't see that growing up so yeah me either and that was the that was one of my biggest things you know my parents again as I said they were gone my mom strung out left um when I was sixth grade that's when my that's when the whole thing started my grandmother taking cusses got me then she started getting everybody else and my dad been in back and forth in prison my whole life ironically shout out to them because they got married when I was 35 so they figured it out that's good but they came back around to each other on Facebook getting married so they write their books sometimes soon I don't know but that was just a whole weird experience but anyway my parents are together now nice Facebook all my um all my life my early life and um none of my siblings but yeah I I just said I wasn't gonna do that for my kids I wanted to create a different life you know you know growing up with 15 people in the house and you know one bathroom and you know fighting over food and all that other stuff like that. I just couldn't see that and so that's been my lot in life I I'm crystal clear on that people say what you want to be you know even though I'm 42 out to be 42 I'm like I want to be a grandparent like I can't wait to be a pop up like I can I'm I can wait I told my daughter I need to be at least 50 you know I'm 27 years older than you so I need at least to have a nice little run before them. But um yeah I can't wait for those days. That's my thing I'm I'm not talking about you know the big mansion here and all of a sudden I can't wait to have my grandchildren and take them from her and let them go ahead do whatever they need to do and that type of thing make it easier on them because it wasn't easy on my on us. We we went through every hell that you can imagine um when it came to that we had no support you know um we had no grandparent support we had none of that stuff and so I want to be I want to correct right the wrongs in my family.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

So you talk about authenticity uh in your book and and I read through that that one really spoke to me because authenticity is a big deal to me it's uh it's important that I for myself that I set my values and try to live those values and not you know not fluctuate and vary from that um and I guess you know basically a way to say that is just being real based on what you've got in here is just really knowing yourself.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Um and uh because you know you say that people buy you before they buy your business or your service whatever that is so um talk a little about that talk about the uh you know the really being in touch with yourself for real it's it's it's it's paramount man you have to be authentic you know and especially for business but period I I I'm I want you to be authentic period but for the sake of the book business wise you will get yourself in some real trouble um I remember oh my guy Tom I mentioned he always laughed he said you know when um he called me by my whole name he said when Jamar um started photography he would take pictures of anybody who was standing still long enough but I understood that that wasn't what I wanted to do and that was me being genuine and authentic to myself you know I was 32 years old when I picked up a camera for real and said this is what I'm gonna do. If I did it at 22 it'd be something different I said I don't want to do this. So I knew I didn't want to work late hours I didn't want to roll around on the ground in the dirt I didn't want to do any of that stuff. And me being genuine with myself I was able to say create a business model that I was able to do successfully and then the more I kept it in that space the more I was able to grow like you do have this is going back to the freedom portion you have the freedom if you don't put yourself in bondage of lying to yourself. You know you know you don't like doing it don't matter how much money they're paying you. Somebody could be making money that's not for me. I salute you I support you how can I help you but that's not for me. This is for me. And then your your potential customers or clients love you for it. They love you for I moved to Maryland I had a cleaning business um I had a contract with um Antella women's stores and I would they would try to give me more um retail stores the late it was one major company had the retail stores and they were trying to give me more and the ladies will always tell me don't take on more than you can handle. Don't take on more than you can handle. And they would they literally took me to dinner and showed me so much luck it was like you always give it to us straight. We don't have to worry about you. We know like I'll tell them no they can say I got a hundred stores over here can you do it I could have easily tried to find some people mess up nah I'm good with what I got this is what I can handle. My whole life situation I told you I bought the smallest house you know I bought the smallest house because I understood what it was two years prior we had a victim nose on the door and I'm an entrepreneur this can go up or this can go down. I need to have something that I know is going to be all right regardless whether we're up or down. You can have a smaller house, you'd be on the street, you know. I take the risk on the building, not on the risk on where we live. Yeah, and my kids love that place. And I learned, I remember when we started making some money, we started taking them on trips, and we come back to the house. You I'm like, Man, we just came from this amazing Airbnb, and I'm thinking about that. They couldn't, they were so happy to be back in their rooms, and that let me know that was authentic for them because they they knew what home was, it wasn't no front in them. They like, this is home. I that house was nice, but this is home, and so we we're the ones putting on and looking at what other people are doing and forgetting what we have and saying, forget it. No, we work hard for this, and this is ours. And if we take care of it and treat it the right way, we we'll be okay with ourselves. But authenticity is has been everything for me because that's all I had. Yeah, that's all I had from the streets to being in business because I didn't have the support as I was as we talked about it. So I had to stand on that. And even when I approached the people who didn't support me, what did I do that gave you the reason not to? I was never not 100% with you. I was never not right there, and they couldn't give me another uh an answer, you know. So I felt good that I had took silence in that because I know I was 100% with whoever I was dealing with.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Yeah, absolutely. I I think what is it? The your word is your bond, right? It's all you have, your integrity is critical.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Yeah, so that's it, man.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Yeah, and I like what you say here. Um, you know, uh kind of, you know, in in my grad school it was called play into your strengths, but you you you mentioned that in here, and much more simply put, to just get stronger at what you're already strong at and not focus so much, because you know, you you I the one thing I hate about the the corporate working world is let's figure out what your strengths and your weaknesses are and then let's focus on boosting those weaknesses. But the problem with that is, for instance, for myself, like yeah, I'm okay with numbers. I I can look at numbers and understand what they're telling me, but I don't, you know, you said your wife is accounting. Oh my gosh, shoot me in the face, man. I could not do that all day, you know. So yeah, so I don't I don't want to get better at accounting. I if I spent my time trying to get better at accounting, I wouldn't do anything because that would just oh so um talk about that a little bit. You know, how you really figuring out, I mean, I guess to the people listening, how do they identify the strengths that they would bring to their entrepreneurial world?

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Oh man, you know, at my daughter's age, we already know what we want to do. We're doing it every day. We're we're we're enjoying ourselves, but you know, about 15, 16, you start to especially 16, they start telling you, you know, the guidance, counselors, parents, everybody started telling you, you gotta get a real job. Yep, you're not good at this, so you need to get better at that. And as opposed to saying let's double and triple down on what you're already good at. And so it took me a while because everybody was saying that. Then I learned the jack of all trades piece, you know, and that was the hustler in me. But I realized you couldn't put hustle on a resume, so you know, nobody wanted to give me a contract because of how hard I hustled, you know. What could you actually do? And so I did get great at taking photos, I didn't like it, but I I know that it was my business acumen that made me a successful photographer because it still was better photographers than me, but I understood business, and so when I became a coach and a trainer full time, that was what I was doing anyway. So I doubled down and tripled down on what I was already doing. Now it's good to have a skill, but everybody, especially in this country, because it's just so wacky, you need to have a trade, something that you can do. But I'm I put all my energy, my finances, my resources in being better at who I am. And I think other people know what they want to do already immediately. This is the freedom of a finance piece. Immediately, they're not gonna get the money off of it, and so they don't they don't think about getting better. Like I tell musicians or people who want to rap. I said, Become a musician. I said, If you want to rap, learn how to play an instrument too, you know, learn how to read music. They said, Why? I said, Because they pay people for that type of stuff, it's gonna take them a little longer for them to pay you as a rapper. You know, if you want to sing, learn how to play an instrument. You can still get paid playing an instrument while you're figuring out how to sing, while you're figuring out how to get paid singing. Always get better at it. It's you go deeper, not wider. We keep trying to spread it. Okay, I know how to sing, so now I'm gonna know how to use a camera. Now I'm gonna know how to like get better at it, you know. Get get great, master some things. Mastery is the is the key. This is how you don't lose, you know. When when you know, I won't start with based off of that. I thought I thought that when I became a good photographer, that was the first time in my life. I said I can move anywhere and I can still take photos, but I didn't stop there. I started still going to trainings, got better, and I said, you know what? I'm great at this too. That I'm something I'm already doing. How do I collaborate with that? How do I make it better? So instead of trying to learn 50 different things, if you spend time every year, you got to go to a two-year class to get good at something, you'll never grow. So it's about going deeper instead of going wider, and we got to teach that.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

That's good. I like that. Going deeper instead of water. That that you know, you really gotta to, you know, that that's the first thing that you know a huge tree does is it it puts the roots in the ground first. Before it spreads them, it puts them in the ground, you know. And I think that's that's pretty key. You know, you you talk about um not having a plan B. And I think that's interesting that it, you know, that not thinking in terms of, well, if this fails, I've got this backup. I mean, I think it makes sense to have some kind of backup, you know, in the sense of like a savings, but I like kind of where the where you're going um because you know, you say that nobody should become an entrepreneur just to survive. And that that really struck me because when I I look back at you know my in my 20s or whatever, and I went through, I think I got bored easily because I have a creative mind and I'm not a I'm not a just punch the keyboard or punch the clock kind of guy. But I think that a lot of times back then I found myself in a place where I was trying to start a business because I didn't want to go to a job. It wasn't so much about creating a life for myself, it was taking something that I didn't want away from myself. So yeah, talk talk about that. Tell me, tell me a little bit more about you know your mentality when it comes to not having that backup plan.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Yeah, we we get derailed by that all the time. And it's the difference between a contingency plan and a plan B. You know, like you can have you know, be rerouted, you're going down whatever interstate, and you know, it's bad accident and be rerouted another direction, but your your your destination hasn't changed. You just found another way to get there. When you have a plan B, you're saying you're in South Carolina, you're driving to New York, and then now you say, you know what, I ran into all this, now I'm going to Miami. That's what I don't want you to do. If you got to go another route to get to New York, fine. If you got to take uh if you was driving, now you get in a train or a plane or a bike, still go to New York. You know, stop trying to go back to Miami now or go someplace else or stay where you are and just get stuck right there because of oh, well, if this doesn't work, well, entrepreneurship is not the place for that because a lot of stuff ain't gonna work. You're never gonna get anywhere if this idea didn't work. That has nothing to do with it. You know, this you're just finding ways you know to get to the destination. Because the beauty of it is while we we're trying to turn around, destination is the shortest part of the journey. You know, when you graduate high school, uh huh, that's it, you're already on to the next thing. You're like, it was a whole journey going through high school, but once you get there, it's like, all right, now what? You know, you go to college and you kicking your ass to going through college, and then now it's over once you know it's just like all right, and they'll and they look they start sending you that paperwork in two weeks, like yeah, I need that money back. So the destination is the shortest journey, shortest part of the journey. Your plan is the you know, that dash that going through it, the journey is beautiful. Go through it, take all those bumps and brutes. That's how I'm able to help everybody. I'm not this ain't a cry for me book. This is this is what you need to have because I didn't have it, you know. And so I wish I didn't turn around on certain businesses that I felt like would have been million dollar businesses, not because it was my business, because I know my cleaning business, a million-dollar company. You know, once that happened and I sold my company again, I didn't have nobody around me, I just needed the money. So I could have made way more money off that business and with how I sold it if I would have had people around me. So I'm telling other people, don't just cut bait, you know, learn to learn that thing so that you can make more money, so you can maximize it because you get to New York now, you're ready to go someplace else. But you turned around, you didn't even see what New York had to offer for you because you got into some traffic, you know, you something happened right then and there. No, man, you got to derail me, go go another way, go another direction, take another highway. That's what I mean about plan B. People get it confused with uh contingencies. Yeah, you can have contingency plans like, hey, I got some money in my bag. If something ever happens to this, I can go the other way, or depending on this person, if that don't work, I'll do this. But don't have a plan B. Like that's a whole nother plan. I'm going a whole nother direction. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

It sounds to me like you know, having going to New York as your example. There's a why, there's a reason that you were going to New York, and so you want to stay focused on that as opposed to because if you change and go, well, too much traffic, I'll head to Miami. Then you've changed your why. And so your why wasn't that motivating before.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Exactly, exactly. And people need to understand that heavily. I always use New York. That was I always tell you that that trip, we did that so much, man. You know, but I just remember I could tell you all the highways. Everybody, if you went on East Coast, they say, Oh, 95, 95. But no, you can go 77, you can go 77 to 85, you go 77, 81 to 70, 78, like it's so many ways. And we learned because of a it's a bad accident over here. Take 40 across from Raleigh to go to this side and get on and go up 85. We had to learn it. So we learned so many different destinations, ways to get there in the car. No, not to mention it, we got on the plane, not to mention it, we was on a greyhound bus. Like, we could have done oh, get on the train. Like, it's so many ways to get the way you want to go. Why would you turn off because you ran into one hiccup?

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm gonna um before I wrap up with some closing questions, I want to give you the opportunity to you got any final thoughts you want to throw out there? Any any you know, things you really feel like people need to walk away from this with?

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Oh man, you know, um, they need to go get the book, but no, this this is this is from my heart. This is authentic. All my books are um genuinely authentic from experiences that I've had or I've seen, I've been a part of. And you know, this entrepreneurship piece, it really is a fight, and it really is a lifestyle. This is not something you could just pick up and put down. Um, what they're telling us on social media is not accurate. This calls self intentional self-employment, and that's the new wave, and that's totally fine. But you're gonna work way harder for yourself than you ever work for any job. So if you're thinking that you know, leaving the job for eight hours and you're gonna work 18 hours is better for you just because you're that mad at the big bad boss man, then you know, good luck with with that. But um, entrepreneurship is not the way for you to just jump in and think that's gonna be easy, it's gonna take some time for you to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Well, let's uh I like to wrap these with some some fun questions to just kind of catch my people off guard. So uh if you could only eat one meal for the rest of your life, what meal would you pick?

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Probably some fried chicken.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Very good. You got a you got a particular brand or uh or grandma's recipe?

SPEAKER_01 55:17

I mean, I cook I I probably do the best in my household as far as cooking my fried chicken. Shout out to my people in South Carolina. Um, Bernie's chicken is the best chicken I've tasted um from a restaurant, uh best fried chicken.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

So all right, we got a place here where I'm at called uh Montana, and and it's uh they've been around for years, it's all all a carte, but uh, it's good. They're they've got uh I don't like beans, but their navy bean soup is something else.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Oh wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Um, all right. So you're gonna be sent to a deserted island. You can either take your worst enemy with you or go by yourself. Which one do you pick?

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Go by myself.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Fair enough. Heard that. Uh all right, what's your favorite time of day?

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Morning. 5 a.m. part of 5 a.m. club.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

Oh, all right, nice. I've I've been trying to get myself there. I'm usually up by about 5 30. It's uh I seem to lack some discipline there.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

So I need to put the alarm on at 4 30 and put it on uh snooze 15 minutes. That's what happened to me. My frat brother put me on at that about five, six years ago now, yeah, back in 2018, and it changed my life. Actually, there's a book called The 5am Club, too. But he did it before I read the book. So if you if you haven't read that book, um, but yeah, it's a it's really a game changer. Those two hours, um, it's different, man. Yeah, you know, those two hours change your life.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

When I found myself actually disciplined enough to do it, uh it's me, yeah, it does. It changes the production uh value the whole day. I get so much more done.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Now you wiped out by 12 though. You're like, you don't need 58 hours, you need a nap or something. That's right. But yeah, that's that's that's this has been a special thing for me for those last um five or six years.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Absolutely. Uh all right. So you uh you have to compete in an extreme sport. Which one are you gonna pick? Um, probably MMA. Nice, okay. I'm I'm a big fan myself. I got a martial arts background, and uh I haven't been in it for a while. In 2017, some joker broke my ribs in in jujitsu, and so I kind of been a little gun shy going back to a class, but I trust to do my own thing at home.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

So yeah, I always like boxing. I don't I don't consider that extreme. So um I think you can go take it to the next level with the MMA portion of it.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

All right. Uh last question is um, so you got to add somebody to Mount Rushmore. Who do you think ought to be added to that?

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Oh man, uh that's that's an amazing question right there. So Mount Rushmore. If you asking me today, oh man, I think me. All right, all right. I'm serious about that. Um, because it needs to be somebody who, and I'm just gonna say me, but it I would say somebody who um is not a president, somebody who is regular, who never who's not um contaminated by politics, it's not a color thing or race thing or nothing like that. It's just straight up and down. I I need the real people, you know. You can't get straight answers from politicians, no matter what the history books tell them. Um no side. I want a regular person, you know. Um, and so if I if I can amend that, I'll go get my uncle Latif. I'll go put my uncle Latif up there.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

That's perfect. Well, uh, you want to got a website? Anything you want to plug?

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Yeah, man. I won't starve everything. I won't starve.com. You know, um, hashtag I won't starve. Just put that in there. Um, jayalim.com, stuff like that on my YouTube page, Starve Talk. Um, we just created that not too long ago. Um, just me talking, saying some of the things we're talking about now. It's a great page. Um, I hash the acronym for starve is stand tall and reclaim victory every day. And so um we're talking, we're interviewing individuals that have that type of testimony, as well as I'm talking about those things that people need to hear. And I'm you know, just still trying to be remain authentic and not, you know, get caught up in all of the social media garbage that people are talking about. We're the people who don't get as much notoriety. That's why I say I'll put an underdog like myself or my uncle up there.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

Nice, very good. Well, I appreciate your time, Jacqueline. It was a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

No problem. I appreciate you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

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